Cops Confront 11-year-old Boy in Robbery—Take Away Cocked, Loaded Gun


The Art of Strategic Therapy
By Jay Haley, Madeline. Richeport-Haley…
And people wonder why we want more gun control.
There will be a prison cell warmed up and waiting for both these poor bastards on their 18th birthday.
@ rico: No, there won't be. That's not how we deal with minors that commit crimes such as this, even in a country as uncivilized as ours.
Those darn kids these days.
i'm sure they both have a great set of parents.

nature vs. nurture.....nurture (or lack thereof) wins yet again.
Still remember the time in 6th grade when a county sheriff came to class to talk about "gun safety"...and promptly shot himself in the leg.
@guspasho - I'm curious, in your opinion, exactly how would more gun laws prevent this situation in the future?

First obvious factoid: these kids got this firearm illegally.

Second obvious factoid: gun laws only restrict those who abide by laws.
@fidelity_axiom: Your second "obvious factoid" is neither obvious nor fact. Gun laws reduce the number of guns in circulation, which makes it harder for those who don't follow laws to get hold of them.

Free access to guns for all made sense in the wild west in the 1800s, and makes sense to those people who want to return us to those times.
@Stu - No, that's not at all how prohibition or "laws" work. Laws cannot stop commerce when there is a market, nor can laws destroy markets when there is a demand.

Example 1: Marijuana.

Example 2: Guns in Mexico (firearms are completely illegal for private ownership in Mexico)

If gangsters have a demand for cheap pistols, they will find cheap pistols. Ask someone in Oakland, or in New York City, or Chicago, dude. What do all of those places have in common? Law-abiding “good citizens” (however you define that) are prohibited from owning a very worthwhile self-defense tool.

I can agree that prices would be inflated if there was a blanket prohibition on a particular class of firearm, but unless that prohibition was universal, someone will still import them, and you'll still be able to find them for cheap.

There's certainly not “free access” to guns, I don't see any utility in allowing an 11 year old to privately purchase a gun, or see any utility in a felon owning guns. Just be practical and realistic about this: all the rules are already in place to prevent these kids from buying this gun. No practical additional rules could have stopped this from happening.
Agree with FA, I am in favor of more control regarding firearms but as FA points out it would likely not have eliminated a incident such as this. Firearms are available world wide regardless of regulation.
Maybe they obtained the gun from a parent who had obtained it legally.
@ROM - Really?

You damn well know it's much more likely that these children stole the firearm from the legal owner regardless of who the owner was. It's not like their father loaned them the pistol for the day, and even if he did, that would be illegal.

I mean, I think it was the Mercury (or maybe the WW) that did a report over the summer about purchasing a pistol on the streets in Portland, and I can assure you that a .22lr like the Phoenix Arms HP22 would cost about $40 over on Killingsworth.
TOO BAD, @FA. Turns out the kid has been bragging around the hood about how he can take his dad's gun for months.

Guess your dystopia where 11 year-olds are dropping their allowance for guns is less close to the actual truth which is that current [lack of] gun control allows fucked up people to own guns legally.

Next time that kid will probably not fail to shoot. Will it be your "guns for the people" ass he hits?
@ fidelity:

out of curiosity, let's assume that the gun was legally purchased and owned by one the kids' folks, and that one of these kids snagged it without their knowledge -- how, if at all, should said parent be punished for allowing that to happen?
These children are so clearly in need of help. Their parents are guilty of neglect, abuse and incredibly irresponsible behavior. How can juvenile authorities who have knowledge of this situation NOT intervene for the sake of these kids? They need help desperately and immediately!
@human, if they stole your car and ran someone over, should you be liable? What if they stole their parents car?

But generally, yeah, if it was negligence by the parents then of course they should be punished. There is already laws regarding this in place in Portland, and I'm sure the parents will be punished.

@Geez, I don't know what the hell you're going on about.

I mean, obviously bad shit happened here, but just own up to it and verbally say the words and maybe you'll comprehend my point instead of slobbering out bullshit:

"Laws do not prevent human behavior."

The laws are already in place to prevent these kids from possessing this gun - Little Timmy didn't turn to his friend and say, "Shit, Billy, this is illegal, let's play with legos instead." These kids were criminals, criminals do not abide by the law. Vis-à-vis: gun laws only restrict those who want to own and use a gun legally.

Here's my rant for tonight, maybe some of you people can finally choke this down:

Look at the abundance of evidence *ALL AROUND THIS COUNTRY* that places where firearms are prohibited do not have lower crime - in fact, some places have much higher crime rates. Just look at the evidence, you fucking idiots, the fucking empirical evidence! Google it right fucking now. This is like arguing with Evangelicals about why Jesus's birthday was not in December! You know that you are wrong, but you'll just keep spouting bullshit rather than just owning up to it because your whole life is predicated on a lie, an anti-gun liberal brainwashing lie. It myopic, it's wrong, and you're saying we should all be less free.

You all sound like the type of people who were cheerleaders for Measure 11: rolling with your gut feeling and wanting to make it into public policy rather than educating yourself about the implications. Slap some reality across your face, google some facts, and pay attention to what actually happens in the real world.

Gun ownership is only intended for responsible and good Citizens, this is what the Right is based upon. None of you would say that the civilians in Syria or the Jews in Poland in 1939 should not be allowed to own guns. Guns protect good people from bad people. I'm sorry that some of you are too stupid to learn how to use a valuable self-defense tool like a pistol, but that's your own problem, not mine.

I could rant a lot more, but I've got lasagna to eat, and convincing stupid people to do rational things is a pointless exercise.

<3, I still like some of you, not all of you are stupid.
@ fidelity:

i never doubted that you would agree that the parents should be prosecuted -- i was curious what your thoughts were as to *how* they should be punished.

anyway, whatever the punishment is (again, assuming that they are indeed found to have been negligent), i think it should be quite severe. so severe that it'll scare the living hell out of parents with firearms everywhere, making them think long and hard as to how and where they secure their weapons in the home.

it goes without saying that these people failed spectacularly in instilling enough fear and reason into their kids -- never for a second would i ever have thought about swiping my dad's *anything*, even at age 7. i knew full-well by then that to do so would result in extreme consequences that i most definitely didn't want to taste.....that's called 'parenting'.
@human - Assuming the Parents are guilty something: I think they should definitely loose their Right to own firearms, they're clearly not "responsible" hence this Right is not intended for them.

Beyond that, I'm probably fine whatever it is, even if that includes jail time or a massive fine. I hope it includes both. Depending upon other findings, they might loose their kids, I don't know how I feel about that, hopefully the kids can find a better home with other family members.

@human - Do you really believe that the majority of gun owners are negligent parents, or that they need to be reminded (i.e. "scare the living hell out of parents") to be responsible? I have the opposite perspective: most of the gun owners I know are very good people, they're intelligent, and they care about their kid's safety.
OK, one last comment, as this is a new development this morning in regards to gun rights:

If you are at all interested in learning or exploring the concept of the firearms in society, simply read this decision out of the 7th Circuit court:…

I haven’t read the entire decision yet, but the judges do a very reasonable job explaining the entire process of legal reasoning behind firearm ownership for self-defense, for public defense, and the risks/rights of carrying in public. I’m still reading it, but I find it to be very compelling information. There’s a couple things that I’ve disagreed with, and I’m sure there’s going to be more interpretations and arguments as the day goes on, but it’s worthwhile, so far.
Dang you really read into my comment, FA. I didn't say the owner gave it to them willingly. I merely speculated that they could have obtained it from someone who legally owned it. I wasn't arguing against you, and I barely even had a point.

Anyway, yes I agree with your country-wide evidence. This country has a sick preoccupation with firearms, regardless of the regional laws.
@ fidelity:

i wouldn't say "majority", but i would say "an alarmingly-growing minority".....but then, i would say that same thing regarding all parents, whether they own firearms or not.

cynical, i know.

and as far as the gun-owners i know, which i'm sure is a much smaller sample than yours, i would describe about 65-70% of them as 'responsible'. again, pretty much like the general population.

(and your link doesn't work.)
hot off the press:

Photo/sound file:…

The Portland Police Bureau's Gun Task Force has arrested 34-year-old Joseph Daniel Charlton on multiple charges in connection with his 11-year-old son possessing a firearm during an armed robbery on Saturday afternoon.

The Gun Task Force served a search warrant at the Charlton residence and vehicles today at 10:00 a.m. No additional firearms were recovered during the search.

Oregon Department of Human Services took a 4-year-old girl into protective custody at the residence and later took a 9-year-old boy and the 11-year-old robbery suspect into protective custody at different locations. All three are siblings.

Multnomah County Animal Control took custody of a dog and a cat from the residence.

This case, including the robbery, is still under investigation.

Charlton, a convicted felon, was charged with Felon in Possession of a Firearm, Unlawful Possession of a Firearm, Endangering the Welfare of a Minor, and Endangering a Child by Allowing Access to a Firearm (City Code).

Charlton was booked into the Multnomah County Jail and will be arraigned on Wednesday December 12, 2012.

The Portland Police Bureau Gun Task Force is continuing to actively gun crimes in the City of Portland. Anyone with information about illegal gun crimes in the City of Portland is encouraged to provide information to the Portland Police Bureau.

If you see an illegal gun crime in progress, call 9-1-1.