I don't think most people object to the idea of merit pay in and of itself. I don't. What troubles me: A yes vote seems to bank on the best-case scenario interpretation of this measure, which presumably involves comprehensive teacher evaluations based on something other than test scores. Due to how vaguely the measure is worded, though, there's no insurance against the worst case scenario, the easy-way-out of judging teachers based on how well their students score on standardized tests. No defense of a yes vote I've read so far has reassured me on that point.

Sure there's insurance against the worst-case scenario: Democracy. Specifically, Democratic control of the state legislature, which will either be defining those terms (no doubt with the OEA pitching in) or sending it out to local districts (again, no doubt with the OEA pitching in).

We saw the vagueness as a plus in this measure. If it had instead contained a rigid merit pay system, no doubt it would have failed as people picked apart the specifics of that system. But here, voters get to say yes or no to a concept, and if it passes, there will be committee meetings and public hearings to hash out the details.

Without a measure like this, we're hard pressed to imagine that Democratically controlled legislature would take up this idea on its own (see: OEA). But this measure would enact a statute that gets us started. Finally, since it's a statute--and not a constitutional amendment--it's flexible. The legislature can amend (or kill) it if we trod into "worst case scenario" territory.

wouldn't we be rewarding the teachers that have the fewest obstacles?

rich schools = better grades = richer teachers.

poor schools = worse grades = poorer teachers.

rinse, repeat

Bravo for getting behind this despite the criticism. I am the daughter of 2 enthusiastic public school teachers who I know support this idea. I grew up listening to them discuss the lopsided seniority system that was promoting poor teachers who hated their jobs before the ones that inspired students, leading the excellent teachers to seek jobs in the private sector. This measure is helping students.

I will readily admit a bias here:

Sizemore.

I am so tired of wading through his crap, that if his name is on it, I vote NO. Reflexively. I don't even get past the ballot title.

He could have fielded the "Feed the world, and a fuzzy puppy for every household" ballot initiative and it would have been a NO vote.

A note to those who are serious about school funding and reform: I am not the only one who sees the word "Sizemore" and shuts down. If you want me to read and consider your measure, dump that Sizemore guy.

My primary concern is whether the appropriate level to adopt this measure is at the school district/board level, rather than a state statute. I generally support giving something a try, as we can go back if necessary, but I do wonder if this should have had more local experimentation before going statewide. Nobody seems to address this here.

Oh, this explains it much better! Thanks! I will vote yes now!

You guys saw the "vagueness" as a good thing? Weird.

I think there ought to be a better system to reward good teachers and get rid of bad ones..and I can see why there's a chafing with the OEA on this. But there's such a tendency to push for using test scores as the benchmark(witness NCLB--an atrocity) by both Democrats and Republicans that I'm pretty skeptical that the leg can develop a reasonable system.

I wonder how other public employees pay scales are managed? (This is a serious question, btw). How do we deal with firefighters, police officers, transportation workers, etc? They have union representation and there are good ones and bad ones...yet we're not seeing ballot measures and hail marys to the legislature to set up merit pay for them, are we?

Mercury Editorial Staff:

My grandmother was a teacher.

One son and his wife are teachers.

Several of my friends are teachers and or administrators in public school systems around the Northwest.

I, myself, once went to school where I was exposed to teachers. What that has to do with a ballot measure, I fail to see.

Your logic for supporting the Bill Sizemore written Measure 60 is specious. That you are a teacher, were a teacher or once did a teacher is moot.

A vague and poorly worded measure is a vague and poorly worded measure, and who you know or are related to or once had sex with makes not a whit of difference. Stop trying to put lipstick on this pig.

Matt, as the only true journalist on the Mercury staff, I'm surprised you agreed to backing this abomination.

Amy, aren't there some press releases you can go re-write, or perhaps you can remove used words from the dictionary? Something useful? You're in way over your head.

I remain,

Jacomus

i'll try an analogy...this measure is like paying our soldiers a higher wage for being deployed in Denmark because they are having better results than the soldiers deployed in Afghanistan. better results do not equal better teachers. you have to compare apples to apples. i know teachers in tough schools that are extremely dedicated and will be hurt by this because their students come from difficult backgrounds. i'm voting no and you should too. plus sizemore is a douchenozzle, as the kids say.

It's fine to be for merit pay. It's also fine to be for badly-written legislation whose worst case scenario is infinitely worse than its best case scenario.

If a merit pay idea can work, it will work because the "unions shook hands" on it. I'm not sure why that's not obvious to you.

I would love to be paid more as a teacher. If it's based on how well I perform, great, but in reality, it is impossible to be unbiasedly judged on your performance as a teacher or have a qualifiable rubric for quality teaching...that's why it's never been done before. Those states that do or have passed this insane measure base performance on test scores. What if you are a teacher in North Portland, where 98% of your school serves at-risk children. Do you think you are going to perform as well as a school in West Linn, where less than 1% of your population is at-risk. There is no true way of evaluating a teacher of his/her performance. BTW, did you know that Bill Sizemore didn't even get signatures for this or his other measure effecting our underpaid teachers and under served youth? He got his money from a wealthy business man in UTAH!! Wake up people! I bust my ass every day as a teacher and you know how much I make? Merit pay is not going to justify my commitment, dedication, or love of my profession, nor make my financial situation any better.

Nicely put Carla!

Just to throw in my 2p about the sitch:

Amy, My little sister is a public school elementary teacher. If you think the "vagueness" of such a measure is "a plus", you're a fucking moron. Please talk to an actual teacher, that teaches at an actual school.

Ta,
A Cat

My only question wasn't answered: Was the editoral board allowed access to telephone or the internet during this decision making process?

Older people get paid more than younger people, it happens in most professions. What are you blathering on about?

Merit pay is awesome, firing bad teachers is awesome. What's your point? This is neither. Maybe a ballot measure could be crafted that would combine the two in some cool, progressive way but this is not the way to start. Anyone who is involved in education or lawmaking agrees its a bad idea.

Great in theory--horrible in application. This will teach our teachers to cheat in order to get paid more.

And then there's also the tangential reality that private schools offer lower salaries than public, more often than not. Yes, fancy-ass prep schools, too.

I try not to pay attention to the rampant ad hominem, but the text of the booklet and the measure itself makes it pretty clear that:

a.) merit and competence are already among the current considerations for pay (along with seniority and collective bargaining)

b.) the proposed changes are based on undefined standards

Yes, we should compensate our teachers better-- many people who would make wonderful teachers choose instead to make twice as much money in the private sector, and with the extra accreditation and schooling, it's a small wonder why-- but there are better ways to do it. Vague policy changes and, on both sides, bitching about the "personalities" involved, isn't going to make any significant impact on something that's been a problem for decades.

P.S., Based on the announced-at-the-last-minute "public hearings" I've read about in The Mercury, I'm kind of surprised that anyone would tout that aspect as a positive (or the alternative death by committee).

Wouldn't it be great if someone could assess my performance as a teacher, (because believe me, I am a good one and would make a heck of a lot more money!). As a teacher in Alternative Ed, I just don't buy that this can be done. My greatest successes have sometimes meant that my students just came to school more than 80% time, smiled a bit more, made some friends in class, spoke respectfully to people around them, and just maybe barely got their adult education diplomas by age 19. Depending on the student, these can be massive achievements. Do I trust the state to figure out how to assess these achievements? If No Child Left Behind is any indicator, then I would pretty firmly say, "no way".

As a mother of three public school students in an affluent suburb of Portland--I am constantly in awe of how many parents find the time to complain about our teachers. And I'm in a district with Strong and Exceptional ratings! The parents in our district have absolutely no idea how easy they have it.

Kids in a district like ours don't have the challenges that many kids in rural or urban areas. Oregon schools are all funded equally--but affluent areas like Lake Oswego, West Linn, Wilsonville, Sherwood all have Education Foundations and PAC's or PTA's that fund many, many programs.

My daughter's elementary school recently had a Fun Run Fundraiser that raised over $50,000. That money will provide the kids with materials and field trips and educational opportunities that kids in North Portland are not going to have. More resources and more opportunities=smarter and better supported kids who are able to score higher on standardized tests. They also have huge volunteer programs (parents) who provide more one on one instruction. Do the the teachers in Sherwood deserve higher pay than the teachers at Portland Public just because more of the Sherwood students have parents that give their time and money to their children's school? That's not fair to the teachers and it certainly isn't fair to the kids.

We need to find a new way to fund education in our state and make it a priority instead of finding ways to cut our teacher's pay. That's what Sizemore's bill is about--it's not to help students in Oregon, it's an attempt to cut funding to education.

All public employees and elected officials should be held to standards like any other industry. My wife works for the state of Oregon and if she was paid on merit, we would be rich. That's just not the way that it works in every industry.

"Remember: I'm not trying to "incite a discussion," here. Merely clarify our endorsement. So please consider carefully whether you have anything coherent to say before responding. Because I've said my piece, now. And that's the last of it."

Darling Editors: Did we really not put an end to this after the Tropic Thunder idiocy???

"But here, voters get to say yes or no to a concept, and if it passes, there will be committee meetings and public hearings to hash out the details."

It's kind of amusing that anyone who has covered, for example, local Portland politics can say such a thing, arguing it will lead to a good consensus result, with a straight face.

"I know we like to elect people in Portland based on their looks, haircut, and whether or not they break their bike commute to shop at New Seasons"...

Is that really all the contempt you can muster for your own readers, Matt? If the way we do things here in Portland bothers you that much, there's a great big world out there waiting for nobody other than YOU, pal...

"Sure there's insurance against the worst-case scenario: Democracy."

Yep. That worked with the whole "authorization for use of force in Iraq." Thank god nobody actually voted for war. We avoided the fuck out of that worst case scenario.

Jacomus d'Paganus-Fatuus -

Matt is the only real journalist at the mercury? What are you even talking about? You have no idea what the hell you're saying. Stick to the issue. We get it, you don't agree with their decision. Keep the immature and incredibly inaccurate personal attacks to yourself.

Why on God's green earth would you let Matt Davis try to run damage control on a political hot-button topic? Isn't that putting out a forest fire with gasoline? This is the guy who equates attention to accomplishment. ("My pageviews are slipping! Time to whine about Portland culture!")

Just admit that you didn't put any research or critical thought into this decision and move on-- enough with the shallow arguments and inane justifications. (Vagueness is an advantage! Teachers will decide! Mt. Tabor is about to blow!)

I would have thought it would have been impossible to further damage the Merc's reputation as a reliable source of local opinion and news after years of ham-handed coverage of city politics, but Amy and Matt have found a way to accomplish it with their support of this measure.

Jennifer:

Got you to open a Mercury blog account, didn't I?

I remain a pompous ass who enjoys tweeking twits,

Jacomus

When did Amy and Matt have their common sense removed?

1. There is no fair way to examine the merit.
2. There is only a finite number of good teachers, so you're admitting to just shuffling teachers from one place to another.
3. You're never going to out pay the private schools.
4. Where is the part about better training in the text? Nowhere. Just because someone wants to pay me an extra $10K to be better at my job, money isn't what ultimately will make me better... I'll need better training, mentoring, etc.
5. Vagueness is good? Ummm, WTF. The "concept" of universal socialized healthcare is good, too, but it's kind of hard to budget and implement just a concept.

As the extremely proud author of the above-quoted phrase/moniker/whathaveyou "Captain Douchy McFraudpants," I have two (maybe 3 or 12) things to say:

1. Go me. That rules. Thanks, Matt!

2. Jacomus d'Paganus-Fatuus? I think I love you.

3. Bill Sizemore is an ACTUAL criminal, that is not up for debate:

http://www.blueoregon.com/2007/09/bill-siz…

http://www.nwlaborpress.org/2002/10-4-02Si…

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/argus/index…

Oh, and there's this too:

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/2006/0…

And this:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/news/the-si…

OOPS!

Now I realize that neither of these opinion pieces (AKA the whole paper that I still like despite this dumbassery) were written by Matt Adams or Amy Ruiz but still made me squee a little bit when the Google search "Mercury+Sizemore+Fraud+Racketeering" came up with 2 Merc results on the first page. Heehee. And here I thought I was having a crappy day at work.

I maintain that nothing this cretin does should be endorsed by anyone in their right mind. Trotting out that he's a "father of four public school students" is a nice cheap ploy to make us feel soooo bad about blasting the guy. Well? Tough shit. Don't break the law, profit grotesquely off the supposedly democratic initiative process, fess up to it (Mexican timeshare, anyone?), somehow not end up in jail and still live another day to slime another election.

And come on, dude. Since when in the new millennium is American politics NOT about "personalities over ideas?" That is nothing but a thinly-veiled set-up to your crack about Portlanders that I already made in so many words about your drug-addled, tight-pants'd staff in my profane and probably slightly immature comments a couple of days ago. Cheap shot(s)? Yup. But at least do it first next time.

Heart you!

Happily voting for Obama, against Measure 60 and driving to Fred Meyer for my groceries,

Iris

I almost voted for this one. Then I saw that it BANS ANY COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS. That's just wrong.

"3. You're never going to out pay the private schools."

Jack, that's not true at all. Go talk to a teacher. Regardless, I agree with nearly all of the posters here. If the Merc ever learns to back down, now should be the time.

Jacomus, I love you.

I get paid by results. I get paid plenty.

If teachers got paid by results, maybe we wouldn't have such a shotty, crappy, inefficient, incapable school system that provides people with inferior education.

Seriously, meritocracy would probably work far better, and has proven to work far better, than seniority based pay. So as most here seem to be against the bill just because it is sponsered by Bill Sizemore...

...what is the proposal for paying teachers? Do we pay them on seniority and let them continue to produce crappy results? I know the system needs fixed as a whole, probably better if we just throw it away. But I don't see how cost of living or any type of basis helps ANYBODY that actually attends the schools get a better education.

Truly sad.

...and ya know, I scrolled back over these comments and yet to see a single actual solution being proposed, just a bunch of complaining. Unlike me, I'm sure SOMEBODY that commented has some vested interest in making the schools better. Somebody got some solutions? ???

Sizemore repeatedly posts bills based on his career ambitions to control politics from a non-elected position and resubmits bills even after they are voted down. If that's not the sign of an ass, I don't know how much more you can want.