why is there a $2,000.00 / month cap on the fines? doesn't that just leave the door open for bars (the ones that can afford it) to budget that in?

Smoking not only makes you look cool, it obviously makes you much smarter too.

Keep on keepin' on, Einstein.

After the ban took hold in California there was lots of twitching and fidgeting by bar owners and smokers, special lounges, cigar stores, separate HVAC, etc. In the end, except for the Korean and Russian mob bars everyone stopped. As far as "budgeting" the fines as a cost of doing business, the fine itself is the smallest part of cost; the hearings, lawyers, civil lawsuits by militant anti-smokers, and workmen's comp claims by employees - in the end folks simply went outside to smoke. Let it go

Rick, there are further steps that can be taken if bars seem to be deliberately and continuously flouting the band. I can guarantee that there isn't a single bar in town that's seriously contemplating paying an ongoing fine to remain smoking. The state would make their existence absolute hell.

And while I could care less if the state makes Dante's existence hell, I would hate to see the same thing happen to Chopsticks. :(

Coming soon to MTV2:

"Flouting The Band"

If there is one good thing about the ban is this. I won't be drinking as heavily as I used to. In fact I have a three drink limit now. In fact, there are some nights where I won't even drink at all.

To me smoking bans are only the beginning of more and more controls on people's vices. I think they will try to go after drinking again. The Prohibition may have not worked and I amnot talking about a total ban on alcohol but make it tightly controlled more than it is now. Maybe Oregon will make "last call" earlier. Maybe ban drinking in strip clubs.

I think the only logical answer to smoke bans are to let the market decide this one. There should be non-smoking bars and smoking bars. More people are quitting anyway and I think the money should be better used to further educate people on the dangers of smoking and perhaps start a program for people who want to quit. As for smoking bans in a bar. Come on! They aren't health clubs or juice bars!

I agree with the above statements to the effect that DHS is not going to just sit on its hands and collect money from non-complying bars... though, doesn't the state need the money? Well, whatever- repeat offenders are going to get a plastic hassle.

There's only one real solution: open a collectively owned bar. The smoking ban only applies to places of employment, with employees. The definition of "employee" does not include owners, even if the owner works at the bar. So, someone needs to open a bar which is owned by all the people who work there. Ta-dah!

ps- congratulations, Patrick, on quitting. You fucking quitter.