Yet no comment on the appropriateness of shooting a 12 year old girl WITH ANYTHING?????
That is why people refer to you as pigs!

It would be helpful if we knew the details surrounding the bean-bag incident before we make judgements.

Maybe if the PPB held their officers accountable for a change-- I mean really accountable, beyond slap-on-the-wrist PR spinning-- Saltzman wouldn't have to intervene.

@ujfoyt: Agreed. I mean, I can see valid reasons to shoot a 12 year old with a beanbag, if say, you were aiming at someone that had her held hostage and you missed. In fact, I'd much rather see them deploy to that situation with a beanbag than with a real gun, regardless of how good of a shot the person is.

But for some reason, I don't think that that is what happened here. So I also await more details.

If bad cops were held responsible for their actions, it would cause a morale problem among all the other bad cops in the Portland police department.

Maybe Saltzman is actually growing a pair.

It's hard to believe that 2 grown men couldn't handle a 12 year old girl without using some sort of weapon.

The picture shows a few PoPiggie BD's in the company of the usual cast of Brother of the Strong rogues. I wasn't aware that the PoPo was so diminished with it's local chapter of BOTS that they've had to let PoPiggie BD's in to bolster their ranks. What is this world coming to??? Will a PoPo actually be held accountable for his or her rogue deeds?

A NEW DAY is here--let's praise Saltzman for finding his new set of gonads to take on on Westerman, Roberta King and the cast of rogues at PPA and let him know we stand solidly behind him in his standoff with these god-
awful creepy characters.

Go Dan Go!!!!!! Let's hope Rosie Sizer gets in step with the tune being tap-danced by Saltzman! She looks so bad dancing out of tune don't she???

@Bad Robot: What the fuck are you talking about? Are you just making up slang terms and nicknames for people at random?

Could that guy standing behind Westerman (to the right) look any more pissed off? He looked that way in the photo on the O's website, too. Really, they're not doing themselves a favor.

Also, when is Westerman going to get a clue and understand that the police work for the people and that we elected our commissioner to provide oversight for stuff like this. In his world we don't need commissioner oversight because none of them were cops before. What would be his excuse if Tom Potter had overruled Sizer?

This is some crazy shit! Uniformed and armed and pissed off officers (on the clock?) show up at a rally in front of the justice center to protest their civilian boss's decision? Imagine if the water bureau employees showed up in their water bureau trucks and city labeled work gear to protest Saltzman or Leonard. They'd all be fired. Especially if they were on the clock.

We need:

1) A list of the rally's attendees (should be public since they are all in uniform)
2) The total salary of those people for that time period.
3) An investigation into who exactly was, I don't know, patrolling the city for crime at that time.
4) These cops should all be disciplined for using their uniform for political intimidation

Wait... the 12-year-old girl weighed 170 pounds? WTF?

@Number Six: I wouldn't be worried about the water bureau as much, because:
1) They aren't armed.
2) Their job isn't to enforce the law.

But yes, they'd be fired anyways, and for good reason. However, armed people standing around making political statements reminds me of 3rd world dictatorships, not just a bad use of public funding.

In the video it looks like Humphreys was walking around with the shotgun looking for an opportunity to use it, and he got it. His partner was holding onto the girl while Humphreys stood back, aimed and shot her.

@matthew D - They aren't armed YET - but they don't have as good a union as the PoPo, so I suppose we are safe for a while from the water bureau. Now about the guys with the sniper rifles, battering rams and disturbing shows of force....

If you are outraged, I think people should get off the blog and make some phone calls or send some emails:

Chief Rosie Sizer: 503-823-0000 or email at: http://www.portlandonline.com/police/index…

Comm. Dan Saltzman: 503-823-4151 or email at: dan@ci.portland.or.us

Lastly, on the news Westermen said he wanted to hear from the public on whether or not, after watching the video, we support what happened.

Scott Westermen: 503-225-9760 or email at: president@ppavigil.org

Suspension is too good for this guy. Firing would be a better option. He apparently has some deep anger issues. Take the power away from the union to back these rouges and make them accountable. We don't need L.A. or Vegas cops here.

Your tax dollars pay for those officers to violate City Policies and Procedures and protest Saltzman's decision.

Let's face the truth: until the 9th District Federal Court steps in and puts an end to these officer's illegal activities, we're only going to get more of the same.

I'd like to see a picture of the girl. Sounds like she is a trouble maker, but I thought female cops were called in to handle unruly females. Or am I wrong? I'll admit that a 12 year old that weighs that much would be a handful, but so what if a couple of cops get punched or kicked a couple of times. That's what they are paid the big bucks for. I still think there should have been a better way than shooting her with a bean-bag gun.

So three grown men with guns couldn't handle a large child without shooting her or even hitting her for that matter? Pussies.

This coming from a Paratrooper who served this nation in two combat zones. Spare me the "you weren't there" comments. I was, I didn't shoot pissed off tweens.

What happened to de-escalation? Don't we pay cops to know better?

I can't be the only citizen here who sees a pattern of behavior from this "officer".

Take him off the street and give his job to someone who takes the responsibility and the trust that goes along with it seriously.

And Westerman, that goatee makes you look like a pedophile, just saying.

No argument that she is indeed resisting arrest. However, if instead of shooting her, (and risk missing and hitting his partner who is trying [successfully] to keep her from running,) he'd just grabbed her too, everything would have been fine. He certainly can't claim that she was a risk to his safety, since she obviously wasn't a risk to his partner's safety.

As for post accident drug testing, I think that is fairly standard at most workplaces. Why are the police any different? And why would they be opposed? (Unless they know that they'd fail, I do know that there are police officers that confiscate drugs and never manage to take the stuff all the way back to evidence.)

Can we say Steroids? Maybe that's why they don't want a drug test post incident. Bet half the force would fail. Hell, train engineers and truck drivers are subject to testing, and they don't carry guns and shoot or beat innocent people to death. And Milfalicious, There is more of a pattern here than you realize. Poot, Chasse and others I can't recall right now

Now that dirtbag PoPo Humphreys has had his ass thrown under the bus by none other than the Commissioner of Police (Saltzman), I can't help but wonder if he now feels a bit like the late-James Chasse did with ribs all broken as he slipped on into death due to this dirtbag's (with help of Barton and Nice) stomping him to death over 3 years ago? Wonder if this dirtbag of a copster has ever heard of the word KARMA? What goes around, comes around. The other 2 turdsters involved with Chasse's untimely and totally unnecessary death had best be watching over their shoulders as they could be next to be grabbed and thrown under the bus. Let's get 'em and throw 'em under the first bus coming down the road!!!! Folks! We got 'em on the run...let's keep 'em that way! Make 'em run!

Most of you obviously did not read the entire story. The use of the MAX exclusion list is a way to allow police officers cause to get these people off the street. They are likely to have just committed some other crime or about to commit a crime. You are looking at this situation from your perspective of being an innocent person. You are imagining a police officer randomly taking you off of a train and shooting you with something. The only difference is, you, as an innocent citizen, would not react in a way that would even remotely come close to the realm of warranting violent response by the police. This person is not an innocent citizen; she is a thief and, judging by the video, dangerous and violent. As I type this, I am looking at the posts above me that suggest incitement of assault or murder of these and other police officers and I take back my assumption that you are all innocent citizens. Maybe that is why you are so upset. I suppose you would rather have violent people just kill or injure police instead of risk hurting the offender while arresting them? Police are just disposable people? Maybe we should arm them with puppies and cotton candy? Also, the person who made the ridiculous qualifying circumstance of a hostage situation for use of a bean bag obviously has no idea what he or she is talking about. Do you also tell the doctor when surgery is necessary? If someone is armed and holding a gun to my head or a knife to my neck, the police had better use something more than a bean bag to save me. These people already know what the police are armed with and they still behave this way. The only reasonable assumption that you can make from the perspective of the police is that these people are armed, or at the very least are prepared to take the life of the officer.

Looks like they tried to arrest her and she immediately freaked out. The gun was all ready to go and was drawn down quickly. What was the initial crime here? True, you can't freak out and fight the PoPo without them using "some" kind of force. Stupid girl had something coming. A knee to the neck or shoulder maybe? But, I think the cops today don't want get their hands dirty so out come the tasers and the bag guns, right from the get-go.

I dunno. The cops have a lot of shit to deal with these days, like this girl who appears as big as a grown man. A lot of what they deal with is a direct result of bad policies made by pandering politicians for ignorant voters (i.e.: War on Drugs). Perhaps if we got our collective shit together and tasked the police with what is really important, these cases would be more clear. I certainly does appear that this officer finds himself in these situations quite frequently.

It's worth noting that this is just going to get worse. With wealth steadily flowing in one direction now, more crime and criminals will be created. People need to step back and look at the bigger picture here. This is one minor incident. We have major crimes being committed against citizens every day and most of them don't even realize it's happening.

The Portland Police Department is pathetic. They strut and stalk around this half sized, incredibly peaceful city like they are under constant attack from enemy combatants. The fact of the matter is they have so little to actually worry about, they create situations for themselves to inevitably publicly mishandle. Then to top it all off they then place that sad little man, Sgt. Westerman, to get up there and defend an already shitty cop for pulling ANOTHER idiotic maneuver , over essentially nothing. When will these idiots stop flexing their impotent power all over, and when they make a mistake, just admit it. To Westerman, Chasse, and the all rest of the ilk downtown: Portland is not a sprawling, dangerous metropolis. Stop acting like of bunch of drunken fratboys, do your goddamn job without acting like assholes all the time, and leave portlanders the fuck alone. Just keep in mind when you feed us the "Our job is so dangerous, we could die out here!" line, we dont buy it. 200x more 7-11 cashiers die a year than cops do. Now, I am not saying there are no good police. There are plenty. And to those of you who fall into that category, thank you, but to the rest.. I hear Oakland is lovely this time of year.

A bean bag fired from a fucking SHOTGUN at a 12 YEAR OLD.

Get a grip. This cop needs to be fired, full stop.

A grown man, supposedly well trained should be able to de-escalate a situation involving a CHILD.

And not JUST a bean bag from a shotgun at a twelve year old, but this officer has been involved in several other use of force complaints leading to lawsuits. Time to take out the trash

It was within policy, consistent with training, and legal under the law.

I reserved judgment until I saw the video.

I wonder what effect this will have on Max safety, which has been a hot topic in the last year. It is apparent that officers responding to Max or Tri-Met to deal with large groups of gangsters, or fighting, or passenger intimidation, or purse snatching, or people excluded from riding Max because of prior crimes face a serious dilemma. They are now expected to not take action, not overcome resistance, not defend themselves from assault and not do anything that might "look bad" to the untrained eye.

She's excluded from Tri-Met for a prior purse snatch. She's known enough to the officer that he recognized her on sight, which means she's a regular problem. He tried to take her into custody (like they had done with the other young man, without incident, because he complied) when he was attacked violently and unexpectedly. He was more injured than she was, and they had to pick his badge up out of the street because she tore his shirt open and tore the badge off the shirt.

Ever wonder why the recruiting age for gangs has dropped down to middle school and sometimes lower?

The reaction to this supports that gang strategy. It also send the message that the buses and trains are owned by anyone willing to be bold enough, defiant enough, and violent enough because the expectation of the police commissioner is that officers will back down and not take action.

Good luck, passengers.

If I were a police officer I would be pissed off that Scott Westerman didn't take Humphreys off the street right away. He shouldn't be defending a person that is obviously a horrible police officer. Get him off the streets already.

Actually jptt it does matter that it was a 12 year old girl. I don't know where your logic stems from, but after reading the rest of what you wrote, I can see logic isn't a part of your world.

Man, I can't wrap my head around the way you all seem to think the world should work. Look at the video - the girl was clearly fighting the officers, so the beanbag was the right thing to do.

No one expects any of you to fist-fight people at work every day - so why do you all think the cops should have to? Who told you that wrestling people and being punched or kicked is part of their job? They aren't Ultimate Fighters and they don't need to be - they are just another kind of city employee, in the same category as the meter readers and file clerks and the mayor.

I think that's the root cause of the anger and confusion, here. You've got unreasonable expectations of what cops should put up with. I've never met anyone who would agree to spend a whole career doing what you're all asking, for only a cop's salary, and obviously none of YOU have chosen to do so, either. So where do those expectations come from? What are they based on? Why do you think a cop should expect to be hit during his shift?

I'm guessing that none of you think a barista should put up with being punched and kicked, or a teacher, or a musician, or the guy at kinkos. So why cops?

@chomp - Jptt asked a perfectly valid question, and you answered with "Because!" followed by an insult. If that's all you're going to do, maybe you should be posting with your real name?

Sure, it's salacious to cry "a 12 year old girl!" but she was 170 lbs! That's bigger than most ADULT women in the US, according to the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) conducted from 1999-2002, although we're probably all a bit fatter in 2010.

She could probably kick YOUR ass, if she was really trying - and it sure looks like she was trying, in the video.

@Nunya - Excellent point! Wish I'd thought of it. :) The beanbag hurt, but all it did was give her a bruise. If they hadn't used it, she probably would have been hurt worse in the scuffle - the headline would have been about her broken arm instead of the beanbag, and the comments here would be the same.

i could imagine the PPB showing up at fat camp and KICKING ASS!


Help me cast this movie: Westerman is Rambo, 12 yr old girls are the Afghanistan drug warlords and Saltzman is the bureaucrat who cut Rambo's funding while he was behind enemy lines.

It looks to me like he scuffle was over before the bean bag gun hit her, so I'm not sure why anyone is discussing the possibility that she might have been hurt worse if the bean bag gun was not used. At the end of the day, this bean bag gun seems like something that should be put to rest, perhaps it would have some use in a true riot situation, but it shouldn't be a daily tool.

Once upon a time, Portland police were respected by the community. A big part of that was because most officers respected the community. I suspect that the majority of officers still do respect the community, but they are being drowned out by a vocal minority (many of whom are slapping each other on the back on facebook, at this very moment). Unfortunately, part of the force no longer seems to understand what police work is supposed to be about.

As a citizen of Portland, that saddens and disturbs me.

give me a break... this is why so many fucked up people are out there... i am not a fan of cops myself, but i damn sure wouldve backed them up in this situation.. the stupid girl swung on a cop and brought it on herself... im sure if she wouldve shot someone u people who r crying about this would still have some stupid shit to say.. pull ur heads out ur ass please come on.. lets just et her grow up fucked up and stealing purses and let her go cause she doesnt want to get arrested... awww poor baby... NO sit ur dumb ass in jail and think about how dumb u are everytime u look at that bruise!! bruises heal fast gun shots dont. for once a cop alleviated a situation fast and effectively with no severe damage or repercussions at all and people still want to bitch... what a joke!!!

I see that the PoPo Gangstas on facebook have made all their posts private. They wouldn't want the citizens of Portland to see their gangsta mindset.

Now, I know they have every right to keep that private. I just find the increasingly insular PoPo to be increasingly scary. It's time for the citizenry to reform the department.

First, Reymont, I use my real nme, even if you don't!! As to Humphreys, looking at his record, he's a loose cannon waiting to kill an innocent again, and I hope it's not someone YOU know, actually, I hope it doesn't happen. Second, if a vest will stop a slug, how much can you fell if you get slapped or punched in the vest? Ya know, I respect the majority of the people who wear the uniform and pledge to protect and serve, but I don't respect bullies. As for baristas, they don't expect people to fight with them over their coffee, but when you take the oath, you should know that you are going to have to deal with a lot of different people at their worst, seems to be part of the job. I just think there are more effective ways of dealing with it than shooting or beating it to death

What is interesting, and quite telling, about the video is that Humphreys seems more than willing to let Ofc. Dauchy deal with the young woman one on one even though she is "indicating an intent to engage in physical resistance" (PPB's own words) from an early stage in the encounter. Humphreys, rather than assisting his partner in a 2 on 1 arrest and effecting a safe and quick custody, hangs back, does nothing, and allows the matter to escalate; thus providing the justification for the bean bag.
Thin Blue Line or not, if I were Humphrey's partner, I'd seriously call into question his ability to truly watch my back.

Dear "opinionated mom" - you're right about one thing, the police assault on that girl pales in comparison to your assault on the English language.

What is abundantly clear after watching the vid many times, is that Humphreys can't wait to shoot. He could have helped his partner subdue and cuff the girl, he did not. He went Rambo. He is obviously unfit to carry a weapon. And yet the PPB falls in lock-step behind him. It's not a "thin blue line" in Portland, it's a fat blue wall. (as the Justice Center photo demonstrates)

Opinions are being made on a grainy video where you cannot even see the actual struggle. Nothing is abundantly clear on this evidence. Public officials are commenting upon in such a way as to act as though the issue is settled as well. Good to see the Police Union taking a strong stand here. Let all the facts come in. Remember the Harvard Prof arrested in burglary investigation. Not so cut and dried as it first seemed, was it. Subduing a struggling arrestee with a bean bag to the thigh sounds reasonable to me. Get her under control for her own safety and those of the officers and the public exposed to her conduct. Anyone interested in her conduct? Her history. Sounds like she was the size of an adult. If a bean bag stopped her from flailing around and striking others and injuring others, then so be it. If she was mildly submitting to custody, then let's hear those facts. Evidence matters, not rants.

dont these cops have anything better to do besides standing around and blocking traffic? if these were civilians blocking traffic, they would get bean bagged or pepper sprayed or tazered! a 12 y/o girl got assaulted by a darth vader look alike!!! HELLO!!!! i was at store last night and there were no less than two darth vaders "questioning" a person riding a bike. i guess it is illegal to ride a bike at night if it doesn't have a headlight! so they made his daddy come get him. i mean for real, don't these draconian darth vader wanna be's have anything better to do??? and then as i was getting out of my car, they were "eyeballing" me like they wanted me to do something wrong. i seriously think they just wanted an excuse to pepper pray me or use the FORCE on me...