Comments

1
Crap from the Celebrity page at Salon? Almost makes me wistful for the halcyon days of WSH's obsessive Biebermania.
2
Definitely agree that the nerdier-than-thou stuff is stupid, but I think you mischaracterize the Salon article. The Salon article uses evidence (truly unconvincing half-ass quotes) to reveal actresses spouting marketing advice probably provided by publicists, rather than actual, deeply felt beliefs.

The article doesn't say they are always lying if they're hot and claim geekiness.

We only care as a culture about dissecting what they say because they're hot, so that's on us.
3
Bell? Fox? I believe them when they pull out the nerd card.

But Munn? She's full of shit. She has climbed to a position of media (il)legitimacy via a ladder made of nerd boners.

But that aside - this is just more evidence (along with Oswalt's WIRED piece from a couple months ago that didn't even FACTOR women in, outside from their use as a vague trophy for nerds successfully graduating nerdhood) that the biggest obstacle to mainstream geekdom being the everyday norm, are the nerds who refuse to drop their stupid fuckin hangups. This one especially.

The last paragraph of Erik's needs to be seared into the frontal lobes of dorks everywhere.
4
Nerds are hot.
5
What CC said. I didn't take the Salon article as an attempt to discredit the existance of female nerd, but instead showing that stay-at-home nerds are being intentionally sold to.

At this point the phrase "nerd" has just about as useful as a meaning as "hipster". When I started hearing phrases like, "I'm just a football nerd" and "I'm a geek for the show Friends"; I realized that the efficacy of such phrases had been dilluted to a point of zero efficacy.
6
Whenever I see something like this about geek culture (whatever that is) in the wider media I think to myself "would they say the same thing about sports?" I think there's quite a bit of parity between geek (who obsess over comics continuity and nerdy minutiae) and sports fans (who obsess over statistics and rosters). Both are fields are detailed and fanatical, both are assumed to be male-dominated, and both feature varied media that gets lots of attention and makes lots of money.

I think it's safe to say that most people readily accept the existence of lady-jocks, and don't think that they're necessarily pandering to male sports fans. They assume (rightly) that they are women who enjoy athletic events.

Over in our region of arbitrary obsessions and fandom, an equivalent view would be nice, both from journalists and self-righteous fans.
7
Bobby,

What makes Munn more illegitimate and full of shit than the rest? I know she's targeted as such but I've seriously never learned the distinction.

8
As Erik said, it's probably a generational thing, but you'll have to give the older nerds a bit of slack if we have a hard time believing that others want to play our little reindeer games. We want people to enjoy the shit, to understand why we liked it all along, but years of being marginalized for it have made us a little paranoid about their motivations.
9
And those who don't believe geeky girls can be sexy... come be proven wrong on Sunday, May 15th at the Bossanova Ballroom for GEEKLESQUE: SPECIAL EDITION... Burlesque done nerdcore! http://on.fb.me/k7aFlj
10
I still don't understand why liking Star Wars is considered nerdy. EVERYBODY likes Star Wars.
11
What Ned said. I consider liking Star Wars the equivalent to liking breathing.

I am also enjoying (?) the fact that all (?) of the comments on this post are from dudes.
12
Everyone took all the rad opinions already, so I'm just going to nod solemnly at Bobby's thing about Ms. Munn. Nice enough lady, but the whole "I'm a geek" thing was a calculated move to tap into the then-overlooked geek demographic back when she got her start on G4.

Similar to how she's done ad work for both PETA and Carl's Jr.
13
Star Wars is bacon for the lazy, insincere shorthand association set - that's why it's evidence that they're not genuine (putting aside why we should care if they're genuine or not).

Also, you heard it here first: Kiala has a wiener!
14
TSW: A variety of interviews/her own book, and anecdotal evidence/hearsay from those who have worked with and around her. She's apparently a pretty stupid and unpleasant person who figured that if she wore a starfleet uniform and read the teleprompter at G4, she could do alright. And she has.

Unfortunately, her artificiality is unnecessarily making it harder for some (who already have a hard time believing things have changed) to accept people like Kristen Bell and Felecia Day as being genuine about their nerdy bent.

Streckert: The sports nerd/pop-culture nerd comparison is made frequently, and often. But people accept the idea of girls in sports more, partially because THE GOVERNMENT had to step in and force the issue back in the 70's. There are still more than a few sports fans who have the same sorta knee-jerk reaction to the idea of a girl in a football jersey: Either she's wearing it as some sort of appeasement, or she's a weird anomaly. Either way - it's probably a trick!


15
@virgored: What the fuck is "nerdcore"? No, don't tell me; I don't even want to know.

@Ned: EXACTLY! Video games are a 14 billion dollar industry. This stuff isn't niche or nerdy anymore. It is fully of the mainstream. That doesn't mean that we're not allowed to enjoy the content; but for godsake, stop acting like it makes you special to like Han Solo. You are not a special snowflake for buying a Thundercats t-shirt.
16
@Graham this: "I'm just a football nerd" and "I'm a geek for the show Friends" made me laugh.
17
@NED AND KIALA, STAR WARS IS PATHETIC! WHAT DO YOU GET IF YOU LOBOTOMIZE A DALEK? R2D2!

LAUGH AT THE DALEK'S JOKE OR YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
18
Also!

Just because some female actors are pandering to the male-nerd demographic, does not dismiss the fact that the female-nerd does exist and and should be validated by her nerd-brethern for enjoying popular media.

The Filmdrunk article linked to in the original article that this blogpost is quoting from has this to say:

"And if a pretty girl is into geek stuff, let’s stop demanding that they prove it. Go ahead, be girly, we don’t mind. No harm, no foul. And don’t worry, we can understand why you did it."
19
Nerds effectively killed their own inner circle when they exuberantly uploaded 50 pages of Star Trek mythos onto Wikipedia. Anyone can be an expert on anything in under 20 minutes. “Nerdier-than-thou shit is embarrassing,” indeed.

How do you know a hipster? He claims to hate hipsters (read: culture snob).

How do you know a nerd? The cool kids just told him he’s not nerdy enough (read: cultural reject).
20
Why can't we stop all this nerd-on-nerd hate and once again unite against our common enemy: fucking geeks?
21
Fatboy, I'm pretty sure the correct conclusion is "It's a trap!"
22
What a bunch of fucking nerds
23
@CC Of course I have a wiener. I just don't wear my wiener on my sleeve like a badge of wienerdome.

Pretty girls can have wieners too.
24
+1 to Michelle. :)
25
Does anyone else see a parallel between the mainstreaming of nerdiness and the mainstreaming of gay culture?

I generally refrain from supporting my arguments with South Park plots, but this had me thinking of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_Is…

There's good stuff (e.g. validation, less people beating you up, sexy folks sucking up to you) but that comes with all of the fun of having part of your identity muted, co-opted and monetized by the dum-dum mass culture blender.

Forgive me if I'm the trillionth person (or crab person) to make this point.

I guess what I'm getting it is once the mass culture shits out their lame-o puree of your "pristine" culture and everyone tires of eating it after a year or two, you're left better off: you're validated, accepted, flattered, marketed and pandered to, and no one's beating you up anymore.

You're just as free to enjoy what you enjoyed before, only there's a bunch more of it - though there is a lot more noise and yahoos than before.

26
"I'm sure they all look exactly like the Mathletes team in your home town."

CC & Graham - You really don't think that translates to "these women are too pretty to be nerds"? 'Cause that's what I'm getting.
27
These women are too pretty to have sex with nerds, that's what I'm getting.
28
@Alison: I was taking it more of a "these women are too pretty to be smart" type thing. It's general run-of-the-mill sexism and has little to do with the quality of their nerdiness.
29
Wait, we're talking about nerdy girls? I thought we were talking about geeky girls.
30
@ Alison, next sentence: "There's no doubt that even the hottest woman in the world can have a rerun-watching, "Halo"-playing side."

"These particular pretty women are unconvincingly posing as fake nerds because that's what's hot and hip right now" is what I get from the article.
31
This is an excellent topic! I wish I had more time to contribute. But as a long time nerd, I guess I appreciate the validation that comes with my interests being more main stream. And the exposure has led me to a lot more nerd interests that I'd overlooked and/or forgotten about over the years. I've recently started getting into comics again thanks to the great coverage on this site.

But yes, concur that there's darker, douchier side to it, too. But I tend to view most folks on tv and movies as entertainers. I don't have to agree with them to enjoy what they're doing. I think the sexism angle is interesting in the context of this discussion. But I cant say I know enough about it to contribute. It is easy to judge people individually for their merits (though honestly have a hard time viewing Kristen bell as anyone other than Sarah Marshall). Sorry for the long post that doesn't contribute much.
32
@ FC, I never apologize for those. NEVER.
33
@FC: I can only ever see her as that girl who rescued me from Abstergo in Assassin's Creed.

No, I kid. Veronica Mars, actually.
34
Yeah, I keep meaning to catch up on Veronica Mars. I still have never seen an episode. Viva la Netflix I guess.

@CC, I strive for honesty-in-posting!
35
Guess I'm outvoted, judging by the multiple nerdgasms.
36
I actually think the nerdier-than-thou attitude is also extremely generational. This whole "Star Wars isn't nerdy because it's mainstream" talk is a bit boggling to me. I'm a 40-something geeky girl from birth, and there certainly isn't a broad acceptance of geekiness at my age among peers. (Not that it's a big deal. I just mean that all my peers look at me funny when I make Star Wars or Star Trek references.) It's certainly not the norm among my peers, no matter how successful "nerdy" movies are at the box office.

I grew up bringing Princess Leia to the Barbie party (and hooking her up with G.I. Joe since she was taller than Ken) and was the only girl in my class to wear Battlestar Galactica eyeglass frames (I still haven't met anyone as an adult who remembers those). In 2011, that little girl would be a YouTube star like little Sith girl. In the 1970's and 80's, forget about it. Loser, nerd, geek, dork, whatever. I think that attitude is still fairly prevalent in my generation (though not mean-spirited since age is such a great equalizer).

All that to say, I think it's a pretty cool "problem" for people to actually be arguing over who's a true nerd.
37
@Todd, you know what they say, "wish in one hand and hope for a Bieberfever post in the other and see which one fills with shit first." Wait, I think I got that wrong...
38
With the exception of Vince's, these are the most ridiculous fucking articles. Taking something out a context to prove a point that no ones really argue against.
39
What I want to know is: what is it that qualifies someone as a geek or nerd?
Does the person have to have read every X-Men comic or just one series?
Does having watched Star Wars 1 - 6 make a person a nerd? Or is it knowing what all the different types of aliens were in the bar in the (actual) first Star Wars?
I've read every Shakespeare and Poe available and can discuss Chaucer in detail.
Am I officially a Geek? Well, I call myself a geek.
40
I stream a lot of brat pack and ROM coms from the '80s, and I've noticed that often times the women in them are portrayed as pretty nerdy. Big glasses, big hair, goofy jeans, awkward - they don't put out the "bombshell babe" look; rather, they put out the "nerdy and cute (but not obnoxious about it)" look. So! This is nothing new - lots of people in the '80s were totally comfortable with being nerds, and "woman+nerd=cute/cool" was promoted in the media. People are just more obnoxious/defensive about their nerdliness these days.
41
@ROM: ROM coms? Comedies about you?
42
I have better things to do with my life than worry about whether others find my interests interesting or not. If I like it, I'll enjoy it. If someone else likes it, maybe I'll enjoy it with them. If I don't like it, I'll avoid it. Something to do with, you know, not being at high school anymore. Judging by the article and a few of the comments on this thread, I guess that attitude puts me in a minority round here...
43
Thank god this article came out. It's about time men were warned that Hollywood might lie to them. MEN! HOT WOMEN JUST WANT YOUR MONEY! THAT'S ALL!

While trying to champion this cause, Mary Elizabeth Williams comes off as bitter and downright panicky about hot women being geeks. Is she a geek girl who is mortified that she will now have to be compared to gorgeous hollywood ladies who like a vorpal sword as much as she does? Or is she really just stating the obvious, although maliciously so, that the average man has no chance with a celebrity, even if she does love your 8-ft stripey scarf?

Either way, her vitriol comes off like she's trying to tell the Soc that she can't sit at the nerd table because she's not cool.... er geeky enough. But when it comes down to it, this isn't about who's a geek or not. This is about what's propaganda or not. It's a fear of assimilation by mainstream culture and all the horrible capitalistic mechanation that comes with it.

But us geek girls, who are used to not being taken seriously, are quick to take the bait. It is commonplace for actresses to be objectified for sales, but geek girls, long without a media role model, were somewhat protected from that intrusion into their culture. Unfortunately, now Olivia Munn represents Geek Girls on national television by wearing a french maid outfit and jumping into a oversized pie tin of pudding. And that is hard to swallow. But reactionary isolationism isn't the answer. Recognizing propaganda, choosing not to be a dick and continuing to relish the culture you love is.

So, Mary, put down your torch and take a deep breath. It's going to be okay.

ps. If the sex scenes in GoT were for "the ladies" - do the director's think all girls like is doggie style?

pps. @Stu - amen :)
44
Amy_said has a really interesting point and perspective. I think generational attitude she describes was the genesis for that incredibly tone-deaf NYT piece.

I imagine women will always be subject to some cultural litmus test or other (too geeky or not geeky enough, too women's lib or not women's lib enough, too hippy etc.) depending on whatever group is trying to claim them, or they are trying to claim.

It's irritating, because obviously some women just like playing with action figures and get caught in the crossfire.

On the other hand, a little cultural literacy goes a long way. If someone was making a kung-fu movie, I'd probably think less of them if they were quoted as saying "Oh man, I love that oriental shit and stuff."
45
Male or female, I welcome all "too hippy" denouncements.
46
@TSW Hippy.
47
@atomic I only said "oriental shit" one time! God.
48
I hereby dub this comment-fest "The Feast of the Outdated Assumption."
49
I'm just here for the dalek jokes.
50
Never mind the Daleks...

Ah, finally someone hands me a straight line! (Most of you couldn't find a straight line with a ruler.)
51
Can we all agree that attractive geeky women are, in fact, real live people? Excellent! I think we're all more or less in agreement here.

@Bobby: It is a frequent comparison, and an entirely fair one. However, I doubt that any journalist (especially one writing for Salon) would write an equivalent article about women supposedly pandering to jocks. We've gotten past a base-line of shallow, casual sexism in one subculture, thanks in part to the government, but not in another.
52
@JS, I'd assume the journalists don't think of a lady jock as pandering to a male jock because the stereotype of a male jock is usually "the self-assured alpha male" type. Not a type of person that the journalist would figure to have trouble finding a potential mate. Articles like this point out the writers stereotyped attitude towards a male geek as much as it does the lady faux-geek. I wouldn't know much about the comparison, I don't read a lot about sports.
53
@Fruit Cup: That's a very good and illuminating point. Hadn't thought of that.
54
Tina Fey had an interesting point about Olivia Munn on Fresh Air recently. Something to the effect that if it was a more stereotypical nerd girl (I don't know, overweight and wearing glasses? Has a large manga library?) was on G4 wearing a Slave Leia costume, everyone would be like "YOU GO GURL". But when Munn does it, it's OBVIOUS PANDERING TO THE NERDS. Like, you're either a virgins or a whore, DEAL WITH IT.

BOO.

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