The Simmering Battle Between Occupy and the Black Bloc

Comments

1
Denis: Did you notice that the woman you spoke to who said she was just walking outside of her house retracted her statement in the comments section?
2
These folks should also curb the excessive swearing when yelling at police.
3
To a certain degree, the Black Bloc was responsible for excessive police attention on Critical Mass rides a decade ago, as well. They used to show up and deliberately provoke confrontations with motorists and the cops.
4
of course, another way to look at this is that half of the Black Bloc are probably police provocateurs trying to tarnish the Occupy movement.
5
"...can wind up distorting public and media perceptions of all the inchoate aims the Occupy movement is actually all about. "

Maybe the "inchoate aims" are actually part of the problem.

The discussion, at least for Occupy Portland, should be if the movement can be refocused and redefined to make it relevant and inclusive to a broader audience in the community. The current incarnation has been totally compromised and written off (long before last night.)

6
The Left will eat itself.
7
This is sooo fucking stupid.
Much like the last video clip, which I feel ashamed to have watched.
8
Indeed, Chuck. The post was updated with a clarification a few minutes ago.
10
@Blabby: not sure if you're in SE or not, but the 4th Occupy SE Neighborhood Assembly is this saturday from 4-6pm at the SEIU hall (6401 SE Foster). One of the main aims of the assembly is, as you said, to make the occupy movement more relevant and inclusive to a broader audience.
11
I don't mind you using my video (the Ustream link), but please cite me as the source.
12
Chuck Garabedian: I never said I was walking outside of my house nor did I 'retract' any statements. There was clearly confusion in the poor reception cell phone interview between Denis and I. As soon as I read the article, I called Denis back and clarified that there were other people arrested in their own neighborhoods but that I was part of the march.

I was on the sidewalk when I was grabbed from the crowd. My face is still cut and bruised and my glasses are still broken.
13
...and you were still out marching with a bunch of thugs that broke windows and spray-painted, etc.
Part of 'occupy', part of 'black bloc' - whatever.
Inciting police violence.
14
@9: Thanks for posting that rebuttal. Everyone who wasn't there, agreed with the Chris Hedges TruthOut piece, or thinks they know what the black bloc is all about should read this.
15
what randy z said
16
Emmalyn: you said one thing, that you just happened to walk out of your house during the march at which point you were arrested, then said what really happened, that you were marching and "had heard" other people were arrested simply for watching from their front lawns. That is a retraction. Actually, it's a lie you told to try and support a false narrative, but it's nicer to say retraction.
17
Chuck, how do you know what she actually said? Were you there? Is there anything in particular causing you to assume that part of her story was not misreported due to a bad cell reception and a misunderstanding, and instead that the person is lying?
I've noticed in the past that you have a record of doubting what the protestors say about 100% of the time you're commenting on alleged wrongdoing by protestors or police violence against protestors. Unfairly biased much?
18
Gee, why would anybody be biased against a group of people protesting police violence who in turn provoke police violence by smashing windows, etc?
They obviously have a few screws loose already without any bias.
19
I can only go off what she was quoted as saying, which also happene to be the lede of the story, which, at the very least, was factually inaccurate. Sure, I suppose bad cell phone reception could have cases that, but I sincerely doubt it.

I'm dubious of protestor claims because they come from a very biased postion. That's not a bad thing, but it's the truth. This was an anti-police march. Should I take their claims of brutality or false arrest with a huge grain of salt considering that? I think so. She was also arrested, and im guessing thats going to color her, or any protestors, version of what actually happened. Its Rashomon.

It's no different than other commenters, Randy a few posts up being a good example, coming up with theories as to how Black Bloc is a group comprised of undercover cops. Theres no proof to support that claim, but it has at least the appearance of validity, so people of a certain perspective latch onto it as a way to support their world view, however distorted it may be.

Denis, with good reason, questions every statement the police make because he knows they're servicing their interest, not necessarily that of the city or it's citizens. I employ the same tactic for protestors.

As an aside geyser, you could ask yourself the same question. Why do you assume protestors, who have a specific goal, are always telling the truth, with the police always lying. Dont take this the wrong way, but you're no better than I in this regard.

20
I don't assume protestors are always telling the truth nor that police are always lying. Thanks for completely inventing that out of thin air. I was questioning why you seem intent on somehow showing that she was lying when you couldn't have known one way or the other. I tend to assume individuals are honest unless I have evidence to the contrary. You say you doubt what protestors say because they're biased. But everyone is biased (and you'll note that I suggested that you're _unfairly_ biased). So the question still remains why, whether protestors are the alleged instigators or the alleged victims of police violence, you're basically always pretty sure they're full of shit, even though you explicitly state that the police are also serving their own interests. It doesn't add up.
21
Chuck, I said the same thing in the Portland Occupier article and the Citizen Complaint to the police as I did to Denis. Why would you possibly think that overt lying is more likely than misheard communication? If you want me to send you pictures of my cut forehead and broken glasses I can.

Thanks again Denis for your coverage of this. There were more 'simmering tensions' at an Occupy meeting addressing Monday night's non-Occupy march.
22
Chuck: "This was an anti-police march."

That is inaccurate. This was an anti-police-brutality march." There is quite a difference there. Although it is (sadly) ironic that the police instantly dubbed it "anti-police" because apparently brutality is just to be expected.....part of the job.

This march was NOT against police, though - it was against brutality perpetrated by police.

And frankieb - your comment makes it sound as though all those marching were breaking things - that is also ridiculous....there were a few people who did the vandalism (out of about 100 protestors). And the 10 arrested weren't arrested for the vandalism (although some reports indicate that police were simply standing by while the vandalism occurred - but so far, that has not been documented with video to back it up). But the FACT is that no one was arrested for breaking the windows, spray painting cars or any of the other things that the "black bloc" was supposedly responsible for. That WOULD indicate that the "black bloc" wasn't who the police were after - but the question is WHY NOT? There are many possible answers to that question, but none of the answers tarnish the protestors marching....