News Oct 21, 2010 at 4:00 am

Is it Community Policing if Cops Live Somewhere Else?

Comments

1
From what I've read, it seems like a major problem is antipathy for residents by officers. They socialize at home and deal with drunk assholes at work, so they associate those things with those places. If you then assume that everybody you talk to in Portland is an asshole, you'll be less likely to talk rather than shout, less patient, and more confrontational.

I don't know if requiring officers live in the city is a solution; the difficulty of living here on a working class salary is a general problem, not only affecting police officers. We would definitely be better off relaxing zoning so that multi-unit buildings are easier to build in traditionally single-family neighborhoods, which would bring down housing prices. I guess that would only take away the excuse though. Without encouragement from the leadership, there won't be a lot of change.
2
"A teacher at the school is not going to have students whose parents are police officers. A grocery store manager will only see officers when they call with a problem. They're not his customers."

The first step towards connecting with Portland cops is seeing them as fellow citizens. Imagine sitting down at your favorite bar and striking up a conversation with your friendly neighborhood police officer. That will never happen if Portland cops run off to Camas after work.
3
Penny Harrington thinks safety concerns are silly? It was an unfortunate sign of the times that she was unable to work the street when she was an officer but if she had, I doubt she would have made that statement if she wasn't a politician. Jesus is that the best and most timely comment you can come up with?

your reasons for living where you do are your business. Gresham, Troutdale, Camas and Beaverton are full of assholes just like portland. I'm talking about the constant day to day criminal element every cop deals with not citizenry. If you don't have to deal directly with criminal issues all day for a living and it makes you and your family feel better then who gives two fucks what Dan Handleman thinks about your motivations?

If you think residency requirements are worth pushing for then make ALL city employees live in town. PDC employees in particular. people that do planning, zoning, and transportation planning as they are more capable of fucking up your world with worthless street car lines, urban renewal districts and other misguided social experiments in making portland too expensive a place to rent, buy or run a business.
4
Wait, 'other parts' of oregon I understand, but are you suggesting the data shows that we are paying salaries to people who live in 'other parts' of the US than Washington state and Oregon? Is this a typo? What other states are Portland Police bureau employees living in if not Washington or Oregon? That is a hell of a commute.
5
These results are not unexpected. I do a lot of economic research and if you look at other professions that are physically demanding, require considerable skill, and pay well you will find similar results.

For example, we found that only about a third of the people working on big construction projects in Portland also live in the city. The reasons why vary, but it is not because people do not like the city. They generally do. It is mostly because people in the income and age groups of police and construction workers have families with children. Housing in the city (especially if you need extra bedrooms for kids) is very expensive. Cops and construction workers cannot afford it. So our research has found what you did.

The irony is that for lower wage jobs, which tend to be held by singles, you see many more people living and working in the city. That is partly because commuting is expensive, but also it is easier to find one bedroom apartments in the city. In downtown it is almost impossible to find 3 bedroom places, which is what I would need if I had another kid.

Another factor that determines where people choose to live is where spouses and partners work. There are three jobs outside the city for every on in it within the metro area, so spouses/partners are more likely to work elsewhere and this affects a family's location choice.

In the 1960's New York City made an issue over this phenomenon. They offered deals to get workers, like cops and sanitation, to live in the city. It did not work out well because it is expensive for an employer to offset housing availability and cost pressures.
6
Every city, USA. An occupying army? O'Donnell, you're still an all out douche. Get off the indignant, entitled, superior city horse, Portland, Oregon. Your city is no different, nor will it ever be any different, than any others. Just suck it up, go to work, be kind to each other, and try to do the right thing. But stop taking yourself so seriously. Community? Diversity? Take your ass to Baltimore or St. Louis, or Cincinnati, and preach to us all about your poor public servants then.
7
this is old news
8
@Bob Whelan-What makes you think the police in Portland aren't paid well? Comparing 1960s police in NYC to Portland doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is not unusual for cops in Portland to make over $70k+ benefits. With unemployment at 10%+ in Portland, I'd think they're doing pretty well. I've known a few cops over time, none of whom work in the cities they police. I'm not sure if my recent anecdotes are more accurate than your 50 year-old statistics from another part of the country, but they choose not to live in those cities because they are uncomfortable being "on beat" when they're really not--even if it means being just a p.r. face for the cops in the areas they police. I've never heard anyone say they can't afford it. Ergo, we're looking right back at the points the Mercury is raising.
9
I don't see how we could expect an officer to enforce laws against his own neighbors and acquaintances. The article mentioned sitting down and having a drink with your 'local neighborhood police officer.' How could you expect that officer to write his drinking buddy a traffic ticket the next day? Or consider him as a suspect in a murder investigation? It's tough to be impartial, hard to be fair. I don't want to force my police officers to live within their own beats, if that would make it harder for them, or more likely that they'll play favorites and let things slide. There's a reason why statues of Justice wear blindfolds.
10
"Say they run into someone in the grocery store, someone they arrested,"... "That's a real point of vulnerability. A general person doesn't understand what that feels like."

Such an assumption is beyond absurd! Almost NOBODY, including folks who've been arrested before, is going to start shit with some cop they happen to see in the store for fuck sakes! This generic criminalized assupmtion ov the general pubic shows a clear dissociation on the part of the PPBs' Minister of Propaganda.

And clearly, Sheffer does not know what it's like for a citizen to be suddenly surrounded by cops in an aggressive way.
11
DamosA, the assumption is not absurd. It's completely valid and real. Would you want a police officer shopping with his/her kids to be confronted or followed by someone they arrested? Do you want the officer and their family to be followed to their car and possibly home? Many criminals wouldn't be afraid of doing this. The only thing absurd here is your inane and unbridled hatred of the police.
12
It is so crucial to have city workers live where they work. It is unfair to make it unaffordable. Building affordable housing would give more new york construction workers jobs and enable police officers and other city workers to really be part of their communities. To make it really work, they should first do some research into their options using a resource like McGraw Hill's New York Construction Site. Though I currently work for them, I have honestly used them myself because they offer a lot of really useful information from what materials and manufacturers are available to what companies are out there. It would help them to get on the right track and keep them from wasting money or time. I would definitely recommend them.
13
"DamosA, the assumption is not absurd. It's completely valid and real. Would you want a police officer shopping with his/her kids to be confronted or followed by someone they arrested? Do you want the officer and their family to be followed to their car and possibly home? Many criminals wouldn't be afraid of doing this."

Listen "puma", if someone is just set on doing any of the shit you mentioned above, do you HONESTLY think choosing to live in Gresham or Hillsboro would provide a safe barrier/deterent to such things? The reality is, the things you suggested just don't happen! If anyone has it in for a particular cop who's arrested them before & wants to play stalking games, then they'll find out where that cop lives & simply fuck with him there. Where who lives won't mean jack-shit.

But the FACT is, most people just aren't going to be bothered with that shit b/c [maybe] they've got their own lives or something. Personally, i've had quite afew run-ins with cops here, arrests or not. But i honestly don't remember what any of 'em look like b/c all pigs look prettymuch the same anyways. I just wouldn't even recognise them if i saw them in civilan clothes & not in their gestapo uniform. And i suspect the same goes for most folks.

14
When I worked for the City of Pittsburgh (and I believe this still holds true), one requirement to working for the city was you had to *live* in the city.
15
@ DamosA. It's not the Hollywood strawman stalker you present that cops want to avoid. It's the homeless child molester panhandling outside Freddy's that tells a 7 year old girl that her "...cop daddy fucks pigs". You may get a laugh out of it, but that says more about you than it does about anything else.
16
Homeless child molester pan-handling outside Fred Meyers, really? The world must be an awfully frightening place for you.
17
"the assumption is not absurd. It's completely valid and real. Would you want a police officer shopping with his/her kids to be confronted or followed by someone they arrested? Do you want the officer and their family to be followed to their car and possibly home? Many criminals wouldn't be afraid of doing this.""

... It is quite simple, really!
If a cop made a dirty arrest, (lied on a police report, planted dope on someone, "stretched the truth" in court) then by all means, they should worry about confrontations with those "criminals" who they have arrested/wronged.
If the arrest was a good, honest one, both the cop and the criminal have an understanding... A "well! you caught me!" attitude.
SERIOUSLY!
You are talking about retaliation here! The only person a criminal has to retaliate on is their self, cause they screwed up!
Realistically, retaliation is more common in the reverse. Meaning a cop "roughing up" a criminal/suspect who 'filed a complaint against them'!


"Personally, i've had quite afew run-ins with cops here, arrests or not. But i honestly don't remember what any of 'em look like b/c all pigs look prettymuch the same anyways. I just wouldn't even recognise them if i saw them in civilan clothes & not in their gestapo uniform. And i suspect the same goes for most folks."

Touche'!
Back to the "honest arrest" concept! If a cop made a dirty arrest, (lied, perjured, planted dope etc) you sure as hell are going to remember what they look like! Especially when you see them on the witness stand, lying through their teeth!

At least I remember what the cop(s) look like who have done the aforementioned to me!


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