Comment Archives: stories: Feature: Politics
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
You're absolutely right Homer - I hate how the discourse on public water is so negative and sarcastic when we are talking about POISON. People look at me like I'm crazy, but there's not a single study out there that shows that water is 100% safe. People die from drinking it all the time. It doesn't have a warning label, so how do you know when drinking it you've had too much?
George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both drank water and now they're dead - what further proof does anyone need?
And we all know that Portland's bubblers are really poison delivery machines designed by the elite to kill off the underclasses, especially kids!
I'm glad we can stand together on this Homer and expose the lies of the profit-making bottled water companies. It's time to retire the bubblers that bubble out death - end the scourge of public water!
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
@Tiffany Rooprai I wonder if the people who bitch and moan about other people concerned about dumping fertilizer leftovers in our water get their condescending views from wearing Patagonia and Northface clothing. #seehowyourdipshitlogicworks?
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
All the people that are voting yes on this; hate children, poor people, the environment, salmon, and are completely ethically bankrupt. It's just that obvious. Shame on you people; please go eat an entire tube of fluoridated toothpaste.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
I am a poor person and actually love my kids...
I really do WISH this whole thing was about addressing issues that really do keep low-income families like my own from getting the care we actually need; I really do wish this whole things was about addressing the issues that create financial strain and health struggles; I really do wish this was about taking positive steps in addressing the root of the problems we are all faced with. I really do wish this was about creating a place that supports all of Portland families... not just this idea about "teeth", but our health as individuals and as a community.
I am angry that it is the families, that make up the foundation of Portland, that are the excuses for self interested companies to make $. It isn't as cut and dry as the "make portland smile" signs make it out to be.
Don't be fooled by the misleading blanket statements about teeth. Don't be afraid of them calling us all conspiracy theorists- its embarrassing that this has become the defense.
I grew up in a place with fluoridated water and my teeth are blotchy because of it... (aka Fluorosis:over exposure to Fluoride) and although my teeth are pretty healthy (minus the embarrassing blotchy spots on my front teeth) my brother's teeth are full of cavities and problems. Don't fix something that isn't broken----- our drinking water. .... work on fixing the root of the problems.... if you really give a damn.
I admit at first glance the argument FOR is attractive (who doesn't want to help low-income families and kids), but the issues at hand run far deeper than a simple fix. Time and time again we have seen that it actually isn't a fix at all.
IF it's too easy and too good to be true, IT is.
Please educate yourself and look further into this issue before voting.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
All the people that are voting no on this; hate children and poor people. It's just that obvious. Shame on you people; please go kill yourselves.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
I love all you smart, thinking Portlanders!!!!!! Just say no to Fluoride!!! You totally made my day!!! (I'm not being sarcastic) Love, 35 year old thyroid cancer mommy who wants to live to see her baby grow up!!!!!! Bless each and every one of you!!!
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Screw you, Mercury. Playing the bad guy as a desperate ploy for more readers. Problem is, you might actually influence some otherwise intelligent people to vote the wrong way on this issue, and that is truly some shitty journalism.
I wear proof of the negative effects of fluoride on my teeth: obvious and distinctive discoloring left by the fluoride pills I was given by my teachers in elementary school. But that's the least of it. You've failed to address ANY of the key concerns Portlanders have about fluoridation. How about the fact that the ADA and CDC agree that parents should not use fluoridated water to mix infant formula (so thanks for adding the cost of bottled water to their grocery bill, jerks)? How about the fact that ONE 8 ounce glass of water contains your daily intake of fluoride, and that most adults should be drinking at least 70 ounces of water a day? Or that the maximum amount of fluoride that salmon can stand in our fresh water is .2ppm, and our new fluoridation system will be pumping 1 ppm of fluoride into our rivers and streams? In addition, our pets, of all sizes, drink far more water than we humans do, and are therefore at a greater risk of overexposure to fluoride. Let's not ignore the fact that in the first three months of this year alone 40 cities have rejected or removed fluoridation. Why pay for such expensive infrastructure when our city is so divided? If this measure passes, it will quickly be overturned, and we'll be left with the bill. Better to invest in something like mobile dental stations, that could travel through low-income neighborhoods, passing out fluoride rinse, floss, brushes and paste. That might actually (gasp!) make a real difference.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Seems the pro side's responses to the anti's are always to ridicule, but strangely, almost never rebutt. I think that shows more than anything how both sides make up their mind. They seem to always think the anti side are conspiracy theorists. Whereas the anti side actually seems to understand the arguments on both sides. Labeling as fringe and ridiculing is the lazy way out of having to actually rebutt arguments. For instance, why is an increase in lead levels of children, found in this study in the journal Neurotoxicology, not something I should give a **** about? Can a pro side comment without riducule and with a decent argument? I would honestly love to see it happen.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Ever since that disgruntled ex Mercury employee got hired by City Hall, the City has made the Mercury it's bitch.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
With Portland's high suicide rate, we should be adding anti-depressants to our water.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
It's well known that the NAZIS forced public water and carried water supplies into battle. That's a FACT.
100% of people who drink water will die, sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly. It can take years of agonizing torture before you're dead but it impacts 100% of us! If that statistic doesn't scare you, you're obviously a paid shill for Aquafina and Dasani just trying to protect their profits. The government gives them this poison at no profit for the citizens! They're just trying to protect their giant public subsidy! End public water now!
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Maxim - Water is DEADLY! You're obviously a paid commentator from the commercial water industry trying to poison our minds!
My aunt's cousin's husband had a disease and drinking water seemed to make it GET WORSE! Don't inflict this trauma onto our children. Think of their cute children faces, forced to drink something unpure like water when they could have milk or juice that at natural and have actual benefits!
Kids already get milk and juice at schools but nobody is talking about this. Communities everywhere are rethinking their water programs. End the scourge of public water NOW!
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
You're absolutely right Christopher, anyone who doesn't agree with us about how harmful water is to children must be an agent provacateur! Great thing to point out, because that makes us sound even more sane! But not too much because that would be deadly.
And Spindles, you're so right why do we even need libraries? Seems like an old fashioned boondoggle - all that expense and no financial benefit at all. And if there's no financial benefit, why have them around? Besides, poor kids can always get books from our exemplary, always well finaanced public school system.
I'd also love to hear your continued thoughts on the horrors of vaccinations and the EXTREME RISK they pose to children! It's just like water - toxic to the core!
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
"In the NRC 2006 report, Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards, the National Research Council (NRC) reported that "several lines of information indicate an effect of fluoride on thyroid function."
Specifically, the report discussed research showing that:
"fluoride exposure in humans is associated with elevated TSH concentrations, increased goiter prevalence, and altered T4 and T3 concentrations" with "similar effects on T4 and T3…reported in experimental animals."
In addition, the NRC discussed research linking fluoride to impacts on parathyroid activity, impairment of glucose tolerance, and possibly the timing of sexual maturity.
In light of these findings, the NRC panel recommended that the "effects of fluoride on various aspects of endocrine function should be examined further, particularly with respect to a possible role in the development of several diseases or mental states in the United States"
(1.). Despite this, proponents of fluoridation continue to ignore the scientific literature concerning the detrimental effects that fluoride has on the endocrine system." - Mary Shomon, The Daily Activity Every Middle Aged Woman Should Beware of (Aug, 2011).
As far as the cancer risk goes: http://youtu.be/ClqK7XvfLg0 .
Heart risk research from 2012: http://journals.lww.com/nuclearmedicinecom…
Toxicity:
Akiniwa, Kenji, Re-Examination of acute toxicity of fluoride, Fluoride, 1997, 30:2, 89-104
"The acute toxic dose of fluoride has been believed to be 2 to 5 mg or 8 mg/kg of body weight. However, acute fluoride poisonings have occurred at doses of 0.1 to 0.8 mgF/kg of body weight in the USA. In Japan, a school-based anticariogenic program is being carried out with fluoride mouth rinses containing 500 to 2000 ppm sodium fluoride on approximately 158,000 persons, consisting mainly of elementary and junior high school children. Thus the safety problem of this treatment attracts much attention. Fluoride retention is said to be around 15 to 30% in fluoride mouth rinsing. In this paper, on the basis of toxic doses estimated in outbreaks of fluoride poisoning, the potential for acute poisoning by fluoride ingested during mouth rinsing is assessed. Acute fluoride poisoning is shown to be caused by exposure to lower doses of fluoride than commonly suggested. The toxic dose of fluoride should therefore be re-examined."
Science!
1. National Research Council. 2006. Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards. National Academies Press: Washington, DC.
2.Toxicol Ind Health. 2009 Feb;25(1):49-57. doi: 10.1177/0748233709102720.
Fluoride-induced thyroid dysfunction in rats: roles of dietary protein and calcium level.
Wang H, Yang Z, Zhou B, Gao H, Yan X, Wang J.
Source
Shanxi Key Laboratory of Ecological Animal Science and Environmental Medicine, Shanxi Agricultural University, Taigu, Shanxi, 030801, People's Republic of China.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19318504?dopt=Abstract
3.Nuclear Medicine Communications:
January 2012 - Volume 33 - Issue 1 - p 14–20
doi: 10.1097/MNM.0b013e32834c187e
Original Articles
Association of vascular fluoride uptake with vascular calcification and coronary artery disease
Li, Yuxina; Berenji, Gholam R.a; Shaba, Wisam F.a; Tafti, Bashira; Yevdayev, Ellaa; Dadparvar, Siminb
4. Mary Shomon's quoted text, http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles…
5. Akiniwa, Kenji, Re-Examination of acute toxicity of fluoride, Fluoride, 1997, 30:2, 89-104
http://fluoride-class-action.com/wp-conten…
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
This has to be the worst most poorly written article i have ever read. I am an anti-flouridation advocate and not a single one of those arguments i would use to say that flouridation is wrong. You're arguing against false statements to begin-with and trying to belittle the opposing side with your SAT worded comedy. known fact 1. Nazi's were the first to test flouride on humans to see if it would make them more docile because it is the only known mineral known to calcify the pineal gland in your brain known for your sense of awareness. known fact 2. Flouride is a poison, no animal on earth survives after eating enough of it, and it has even been known to melt holes through concrete. fact 3, In the long run flouride has also been known to do more damage than benefit the teeth.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Perhaps The Portland Mercury should stick with the smarmy, self-indulgent pieces they endlessly churn out, instead of propaganda pieces that appear to be spoon fed to them by the pro-fluoride propaganda machines. Municipalities across the country are re-thinking their water fluoridation policies due to health and environmental concerns. Maybe try doing some actual *gasp* research...
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Let's face it. All the people voting for it, are the same people who vote YES on everything anyway.
Something in the water in Portland, indeed.
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Fluoridated water does not prevent cavities. Clean water does not cause them. Water is not the problem. Well meaning people are mistakenly trying to treat the symptom, not the disease.
RSSGoing to Seattle?
Re: “The Sanest Arguments Against Fluoride...”
Spindles - you're so funny, but why didn't you mock the commenter by telling them to get vaccinated? Isn't that roughly the same thing? Bit it's okay, you're still witty. You could've also told him to go downtown and drink from a bubbler! I guarantee that commenter will be dead one day as long as they drink water. It's a FACT that water drinkers die!
I'm so glad we can stand together on the important topics of public water along with the evils of vaccination. All of society is one giant conspiracy - anyone who has any profit motive is obviously trying to kill us somehow.