Comments

1
Memorial Coliseum site was always a better option than Lents anyway. And much cheaper. Hopefully people will stop burying their head in the sand and/or bending over and gladly letting Paul Allen diddle their balloon-knot, and instead, re-open the discussion about the Coliseum location. PGE Park and the Coliseum are publicly owned money losers now and can't continue as-is. The Coliseum will continue to be a publicly owned money loser if a baseball stadium goes into Lents. The City has a chance to turn both PGE Park and the Coliseum site into money generators. And give the finger to Paul Allen in the process. Do it.
2
So the developers are full of it? Shocking. Utterly shocking, I say.
3
This whole thing is ridiculously complicated and obviously wrong on so many fronts. Kill it now.
4
Hey Will, You're a KJ right? 1 night a week at Chopsticks or so. Have you been reporting all your tips and paying taxes on them? I'm not saying you should...I'm just saying you're being a little hypocritical by complaining about something that you're actually directly contributing to.
5
Three posts 'til the first personal attack! We should keep statistics on this.
6
@BlackedOut You know nothing about what I do as far as tip reporting. Don't be silly.: D
7
!!, I find it hard to take you seriously when you're using a false-name like a coward.

Ok, somebody do the next blogtown red-herring.
8
@blackedout Also I made like 15 dollars in tips last night, so, even if I wasn't reporting my tips, which I am, I wouldn't exactly be metaphorical running out of the city treasury with huge moneybags screaming robble! robble!

Anyway. You're diverting the issue here, which is that developers are trying to bend the city over to make a buck, and some people just don't like that, oddly enough.
9
WILL- You are a disgusting hipster. You really should FULLY pay your taxes, especially on tips you receive! It is a crime to not report all income earned! Here that knocking on your door? It's just IRS agents...and they have guns! Don't crap your pants! You have been reported!
10
"Memorial Coliseum site was always a better option than Lents anyway. And much cheaper."

I happen to think that IF we're going to through money down this toilet bowl, that the Rose Quarter was a better choice. But cheaper? Demolishing a giant structure in teh middle of town, repreparing the site, and building is cheaper than building on a greenfield in Lents? You're a moron.

Also, I still need two things explained to me:

Why do the Beavers rate a $40 million facility? We all know the answer is that they don't.

Second, explain to me how that facility featured in that drawing costs $40 million to build? You can't find someone to build that for $10 million? This city is so dumb with it's money it isn't even black humor.
11
LETS SPEND 44 MIL ON HOOKERS AND GET PORTLAND LAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDD

QUOTE DIS IF U DOWN
12
U GAT TO WEAR A CANDOM DONT WANT NO CRIPPY CRAWLIES HEAR
13
While I don't think Qwiknezz69 is adding to this discussion, he doesn't seem to be taking anything away either...
14
Yes, maybe the discussion needs to "refocus".

Mr Leonard is certainly taking the risk that if he is unsuccessful in this stadium bid, his political career will be toast. (As opposed to merely in tatters, as it is right now.)

Just check out the quote below to see how the commissioners in Columbus, Ohio, handled contracts for their 55 million AAA stadium, which clarifies why Leonard can't support simply dumping baseball for soccer, but has to have a new baseball stadium. (Even though the Beavers could share PGE Park with soccer). Read on.....

“The selection of the construction firms to build the ballpark have been a contentious issue. On November 5, 2007, Lithko Contracting of Hamilton, Ohio filed suit against Franklin County. At issue was the fact that the contract for pouring concrete was awarded to Baker Construction despite Lithko’s bid coming in $17,500 lower.[3] It was alleged that the Franklin County Commissioners had favored Baker over Lithko because Baker employed union labor and Lithko did not. Because the Commissioners did not want to face delays due to a lawsuit, they awarded the contract to Lithko on November 9, 2007.[4]

The county was subsequently sued two more times by firms after they were denied the contracts despite being low bidders.[5] In those cases, the county rejected the low bid due to allegations of “prevailing wage” violations by the low bidders. State Representative Larry Wolpert (R) has asked the state controlling board not to release $7,000,000 in funds until the low bidders are selected.”

Special interests controlling the politicians again. But wait, that era is ending, right...?

15
Can we really afford this Paulson personal project anywhere at this time?
16
Blabby,

I know that the Coliseum site option is cheaper than the Lents option because I read the reports and articles. Paulson is putting less of his own money into the Lents option because it's not in the city core, so there's more of a burden on URD in Lents. No need to resort to the moron comments.
17
@Will Radik

I realize YOU don't make that much as a KJ but you would honestly be the first service industry person I've known to fully report their tips if you actually do fully report your tips. It's still part of the thing...I find it hard to take seriously the service industry types who complain about arts and schools when the vast majority of them under report their taxable income.

So while Will is just 1 person there are thousands of service industry types in Portland not reporting their tips. It's sort of hard for me to take seriously anyone in the service industry complaining about where their tax dollars are going when they're working in an industry where its encouraged to cheat the state out of tax dollars meant for schools and roads. Not that you do it Will...but I'm sure you know what I mean.

@gonetoreno

What do I have to dig the exact quote out again to show to you that the Beavers and Timbers can't share PGE? Are you that dim witted you've missed it being repeated over, and over, and over? Don Garber, Commissioner of MLS said, "If the baseball team does not move out of PGE Park, then we won't be able to have an MLS team in Portland".

So no...the Fritz babble that she created about them being able to share is false. I'd rather you just piss and moan about not wanting an MLS team rather than trying to mislead people into thinking a shared stadium is possible...because its not.
18
Jack Acid, the "reports" put together so far are shoddy irresponsible crap, to put it mildly.

There is no way in hell that demolishing and reusing the Coliseum site would end up being cheaper than building in Lents. Even with Paulson's money kicked in. No way. You don't know how these these work I guess. The amounts mentioned now are just the preliminary commitments. Then the project runs into all kinds of "unforeseen complications" and city "has to" pour in tens of millions more.

Hell, just the INTEREST paid on those zero coupon bonds they were talking about would be well more than the $40 million cost in Lents (which will also bear butt loads of interest, of course).

I like the Beavers. I'd be genuinely bummed if they left Portland. But they aren't worth a $40 million public investment. Not even close.
19
BlackedOut, here's an idea. Before we throw up our hands and say they can't play in the same stadium, why don't we f**king negotiate?

We're proposing significant public expenditures. Why doesn't the city go to Paulson and the MLS and say, "we think we can have them in the same stadium and that's what we'd like to do."
Call their bluff. The MLS would blink in a second.

And for the amounts of money we're talking about here, I'm sure we could get a very elegant, functional design solution for both teams at PGE. $40 million could go a long way at PGE.
20
The Timbers and Beavers share PGE Park right now. MLS wants us. If for some reason they are stupid enough to reject us, WE ALREADY PLAY IN THE NEXT LOWEST LEAGUE! The team isn't going to fold if we don't get in to MLS, despite what some Timbers fans worry about. The travel costs are not going to be that much higher without Seattle and Vancouver. We are 8,000-strong at every game and Paulson is MAKING MONEY RIGHT NOW WITH THE CURRENT SET UP! The Timbers (hopefully with a new owner) can try again for MLS later if this doesn't work out. The real problem is that an out-of-town spoiled rich kid and his criminal father own our team. This is a difficult process right now for us soccer fans, but we must be patient as we oust Merritt Paulson and "Hank" Paulson and show Portland that we want a local owner who is one of us. Timbers for sale! Someone, please save us!
21
Blabby and PL have a good point. MLS needs Portland a lot more than we need them. The city is not going to fold. The league just might.

BO, you and your various monikers have an unfortunate tendency to ignore valid criticisms of your dogmatic position, or to respond with unrelated personal attacks. Why is that?
22
To have an MLS-standard soccer pitch and baseball in the same stadium has two big problems. Firstly, the soccer field would (as now) have no stands on two sides of the field; it's something I suspect people could live with for the short term (since, erm, we live with it at the moment) but would need a long term fix.

More importantly though, if you have baseball, the pitch isn't flat. The current PGE Park surface is a joke - the ball runs downhill to the sidelines. As an inevitable result of the mounds needed for baseball. There's a reason English teams have stopped coming here for friendly pre-season games - it's an injury risk. It's not really suitable for the current level of play, certainly not good enough for MLS, which is why they won't accept it. To get a pitch of good enough quality for MLS would require separate turf being moved in and out depending on which team is playing that day; and that would cost serious money (more than building an entire new Beavers stadium).

If you want a cheap alternative option, the baseball stadium in Salem holds 4252 fans, which would seem perfect size for a AAA team... Just saying...
23
Kids will grow up with pride because they live in the neighborhood where a minor league team plays? Riiiiight.... Let's be real. The Beavers will not last in Portland. Minor league teams and fringe teams do not last here. They are not important to the city. The reason that they are doing ok now is because they are at PGE park, which is in walking distance from a lot of people who work and live downtown. On a nice day, it is easy to go to the game on a slow afternoon.

If we want to try MLS, great. I would go to those games, and I think a lot of other people would too. But let's cut this minor league team loose. Building a stadium just for that makes NO sense at all.
24
Why should the citizens of Lents care if "entertainment dollars" are diverted from the West side to their neighborhood. Isn't that the whole point of URD and economic development/revival? That you get people to come to your neighborhood to spend money and get businesses to invest there?

25
Finnegan. Please do your research on how URA funding, and specifically the Lents URA funding works including both the track record of failures and successes before you make incorrect statements about "entertainment dollars being diverted from the Westside to their neighborhood." It doesn't really work that way.

There are trade-offs and huge ramifications for Lents using URA funding as it is currently proposed. Lents will be having the majority of money taken out of their current budget for things ALREADY approved and earmarked such as housing and road improvements.

In addition, there is very scant analysis that the stadium will bring a return on investment --- The Stanford expert illustrates that. That might be another reason people are a twee upset. It means less long term funding for economic development out there, no matter where the URA the money comes from.



26
a few thoughts:

BO and his (her?) SCUSA single-issue-voter friends always gloss over things when arguing their blinkered points. one is that the MC is currently valued at somewhere between $40 and $50+ million. you can't seriously discuss costs without factoring this in, which makes the overall cost of demolishing and building at the RQ somewhere to the north of $84 million. which is a ridiculous amount for a AAA stadium, no?

Leonard is up to old tricks with the URA fund discussion. as he's done before, he's telling us the rules don't apply to him, or this or that situation (i'm thinking of neon roses and the like). the 30% threshold for low-income housing is most definitely not "a city-wide goal". utter bullshit. how will the interstate URA folks feel when money is diverted from their fund to lents?

speaking of the interstate URA. how much of their funding was Adams/Leonard going to divert to the RQ site under the demolish the MC scenario? you think they were going to actually go for that?

finally - i've aske BO this before and got no response: do you actually believe that a properly marketed MC will not make a profit? don't give me any BS about competing with the blazers. if we make reasonable upgrades to the MC and make it into a nice (not spectacular) 10k seat venue it will not compete with all the flash of the 18k RG. we'll be able to attract more events with both.
27
Hello. I was reviewing the comments again, and I noticed that Jack Acid claims that Lents will be more expensive because our esteemed and sexy owner Merritt Paulson has decided to not contribute private money to the Lents site.

Does Jack Acid not understand what is wrong with that statement? He thinks he is advocating the demolition of Memorial Coliseum, which itself is a dastardly deed, but he is actually exposing the hucksterism of Merritt Paulson. Paulson is removing private money from the deal in order to increase the burden of the people of Lents. And then Timbers fans have the audacity to exclaim "But Lents Park is more expensive! We should knock down Memorial Coliseum!" I wish these guys had enough remaining brain cells to function as valuable members of society.

Once again, Merritt Paulson shows himself to be a poor citizen and a bad owner for the Timbers. Paulson out!!!
28
@GLV

I have only one moniker. It's this one.

That wasn't a personal attack on Will. I was just noting how it's amusing that a person in the service industry is bitching about how more money should go to schools and the arts yet he works in an industry where it's not a secret that those in that industy don't pay taxes on much of what they make.

The umbrage everyone has is astounding. You attack, attack, attack a person who wants to bring a major league sport to our town and needs some help from the city but don't say a goddamned word when there are literally thousands of people in this town between bartenders, waiters, and anyone else who gets a tip who aren't paying their fair share for things like schools, the arts, and potholes.

I work in a professional job and I know waiters working half the hours that I do making 80K a year but reporting $8.40 an hour. So again, that wasn't a personal attack...just pointing out something.
29
as i said...
30
superfuckingawesome finish to the game tonight, BTW.
31
@eric cantona

It was a good finish. I have a feeling Howie had something to do with it.

"i've aske BO this before and got no response: do you actually believe that a properly marketed MC will not make a profit?"

No, I don't. There are very few people that do. The fact is that many acts just don't want to play there. The facilities aren't exactly...ummm modern, nice? I don't know a good word for it. Other than that if you have an event with more than aroun 4,000 people the sewers back up and I have it on authority from an employee with the Winter Hawks that the electrical system is patched together with electrical tape and needs a complete overhaul. The electrical system and plumbing are built into the superstructure. That means they're going to have to jackhammer the "teacup" inside to fix that stuff. That's estimated anywhere from $13-$80 million depending on what you have done.

The building "might" be worth $40 or $50 million...in theory I guess. I seriously doubt you could find a private investor to pay that much for the MC and not want to knock it down and put something else up. So we're talking about a building that MAY be worth $40 million but it needs repairs anywhere between $13-$80 million that don't exactly justify any profits that might be made if, and that's a big if, the MC could go in direct competition with the RG for events.

And again...if you want to put the MC in direct competition with the RG for events the MC will lose every time. It just doesn't have the amenities that the RG does. You'll also be fucking with Paul Allen's money...all it will take from him is a whisper that he'll move the Blazers and I would estimate roughly 70% of the Portland Metro area would probably show up with sledgehammers to start going at the MC themselves.
32
thanks for responding BO.

i'll make a few comments then leave it alone, since you're probably unlikely to be convinced.

the builing IS worth $40-50m. doesn't mean that anyone's going to make an offer today or tomorrow. it's what it's value is. and it's not going to cost anywhere near $80m to upgrade the MC. it might cost that to turn it into a big-ass community center, but i probably agree with you that that's a ridiculous idea. but to repair the infrastructure (water/electrical/HVAC/roof) will not even approach your $13m figure. what will cost extra funds will be upgrading restrooms, seating and whatnot. my guess is that all that might get you up to $13m.

you wont have to "jackhammer" anything to upgrade the systems. abandon the old, then do some rerouting, new borings, hanging shit from the basement ceiling... there are many ways to fix that.

finally, why do you think that a nice shiny 10k arena would be in "direct competition" with the 18k RG? two completely different markets there. if i were king of the world i would completely upgrade the MC with new mechanicals and seating for 10k or less. none of the expensive bells and whistles like jumbotron or suites. just make it operate smoothly. it would be perfect for much of what it's used for now: winterhawks, HS games, concerts, etc., things that could in no way afford to be in the RG. someone elsewhere mentioned PSU basketball. that'd be perfect. point is, there are plenty of ways to market that notion, and it could easily be done in conjunction with the RG. then you would see profits that would pay for the upgrades.

then you wouldn't be "fucking with Paul Allen's money", which is hilarious, because he does such a great job of that himself. quite the businessman that guy is...

glory glory man united.

Please wait...

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