I'm not an economics major and I don't profess to be an expert in these matters, but something is so completely wrong about all of this that I can no longer keep the thoughts to myself.

Measures 66 and 67 will not "save our schools" any more than a statewide flat 25% tax would achieve. It isn't about schools, services or medical services to the elderly. It isn't even about matching federal funds, or even "greed vs. need." What the State really needs is a "reset" button for the economy.

State government can't fix the State problems by simply adding additional taxes. If that was the case then the fix would be simple and all states and the federal government would use that process to fix everything. We wouldn't have any money but everything would be fixed (kinda sounds like China). What we need to run the State smoothly, without additional taxes, is a strong economy. Anyone want to disagree with that? How do you achieve a strong economy? NOT with taxes. You achieve a strong economy by providing an environment in which a strong economy can exist and attracting business where jobs are created.

Think about when the economy was stronger and not even that great: 2002. In 2002 we were experiencing rapid growth in many sectors, especially real estate. Lots of people were working. Builders, carpenters, plumbers, bricklayers, furniture stores, carpet companies, anything related to real estate was kicked into high gear. This was fooled greatly by low interest rates and speculation (also known as confidence). People had confidence that what they were doing was good and the State enjoyed all the money from the new and increasing property taxes. People wanted to move here, work here, live here, and raise their families here. In many respects, life was good.

Now, because the economy is, let's face it, in depression, the only recourse is to tax? Who? The rich? Please! Rich people stay rich because they can afford to hire people to keep their money safe. They are not stupid. They are not like the French Aristocracy, sitting back and enjoying their wealth while we grovel in the dirt plotting their demise. They are simply smart enough to make good on the opportunity to generate income. We should all be so blessed. They are (well most) also able to manipulate their income so that they remain under the $250K household threshold. That's what tax accountants and tax lawyers are for. That's why accountants and lawyers make the big bucks.

Okay, how about taxing businesses? Were you in favor of State sales tax? Would you like to be like California which has a 9.75% sales tax on everything but store bought food? How about a sales tax on everything, including food? If this measure passes, it is NOT about getting businesses to pay more than the minimum $10 tax and increasing it to $150. Think about it, how would that help? Walmart paying 150 bucks? Don't you believe it. They pay huge taxes already. Now they will pay on their GROSS revenue instead of their NET revenue. Guess who will pay for that: US! The measure will guarantee that the extra cost of doing business will UNDOUBTEDLY be passed along to ALL OREGON RESIDENTS AS A HIDDEN SALES TAX, meaning the price of EVERYTHING will go up. (How's your income going to deal with that? Getting a raise any time soon?)

The ONLY thing we can do about it is strengthen the economy. Since the State is addicted to money and the only source is to tax US, that is their only option (they generate no money of their own in any way). For the State to create an environment where everyone who wants to can work, live and have the American Dream, they would have to REPEAL many of the prohibitive disincentives (taxes and fees) that bring jobs and income to Oregon. (Like that's going to happen.) Taxes to the state are like being addicted to morphine or meth; you can't do without it but its killing you, or in this case, US.

I realize this isn't what most of you want to hear or even believe. Ask yourself, do taxes really fix anything when it comes to building the economy? Do you want more taxes or a better economy? Most Oregonians I know HATE taxes. Huge property taxes, income taxes, fuel taxes. We have voted down sales tax over and over again. Just because it doesn't show on the receipt as "tax" doesn't mean it isn't there. Get real.

Want to ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING? Do something useful with your vote, vote for someone who believes in bringing NEW INCOME to the people of the state. Tell your REPRESENTATIVE YOU WANT NEW INCOME TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE! It breaks my heart to see so many large and small shops close, foreclosures, layoffs, families living off emergency food banks, bankruptcies and record unemployment at numbers not seen since the great depression! We need representatives that believe in US. Not just for the taxes we produce.

People need confidence that the system works. Taxes never (NEVER) help that. Why do you think we are in this great country in the first place (besides religious freedom)? No Taxation without representation. Well, I don't feel represented. Not for a long time. Do you think for a moment that new taxes of any kind will do the trick?

No silver bullet, no easy fix. No "reset" button available (don't you wish?). It will take hard work to bring our economy back. It will take all of us. It will also take our State Government to get out of our collective pockets. We all need to pay our fair share of taxes to support those social programs we all use and need including roads, water, emergency services, schools, etc. We need to pay it with the money from our jobs and businesses. The more we are employed, the more we create, the more we sell, the more we grow, the more goes to the State and everything runs as it is suppose to. That is how it is suppose to work and it will if we work for it and expect support from our representatives. You have to have confidence that the system will work and it will. Our representatives must have confidence in US. New taxes in hard times (to ANY group or business) is not an answer, it's a cop-out!

Utopia? (Look it up) No, that is limited thinking. Just working the American Dream the way it was suppose to work in the first place. There will be problems, there always are. But we can work them out if we are not partisan, ignorant or blind to reality. So VOTE for someone who believes in you and the economy and keep educated on what's happening around you. Trust that more taxes are not the answer. Never have been.

Thanks for the forum space to finally present these thoughts. Now, go ahead, tell me where I went terribly wrong or I am just naive. Oh, by the way, yes, I have completely read about both measures (and bills), have you? This is not an uninformed gripe from someone who just wants to vent his spleen. My spleen and I are doing fine, just fine. How's yours?

Dear Andy and Matthew,

Thanks for your comments. Matthew, as for money, you are absolutely correct. So why then is the State focusing only on taxes as the only avenue for salvation? Socialism, so many people are afraid of that term. It reminds them of Communism (which we have been taught is evil). Fact is, we turn a blind eye when Social programs work for us. Medicaid, Social Security, schools, roads, National weather service, NASA, forest service, BLM, parks, local public services, our military, police and fire and our elected government officials with their administrations. These are all Social programs. (We pay in and they use the money to administer their respective programs for the greater good).

True Socialism (depending on the doctrine you prefer) broadly defined believes that the State should be in control of all material production/technology and hence, the revenue from the production belongs to the State. Workers simply are provided enough $ to keep them going while they add to the State's success. Didn't work very well for the Soviet Union though China and North Korea seem to be having a better time with it. Have you considered changing Nationaities to a Socialist State of late? Could be fun. Here are your choices: Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, China, and (again) North Korea. Let us know which one sounds good to you.

When we speak of schools in particular, their task is to educate. If they do their do their job properly then the students will eventually seek to use their education to find their way in the World and look for ways to contribute and prosper in our great society. What if their first thought is to go where the possibilities are the best for success? Would that be Oregon? Currently with 11.9% unemployment (and that is just counting those on unemployment insurance and not the actual number out of work or under employed).

I am not for corporations running the government either. Although that is what the Supreme Court seems to be leaning towards (see today's headlines). Lobbyists and those who roam "K" street in Washington DC appear to be bent on World domination via the almighty buck. We are gradually losing control of the Government by the People, if it indeed still exists. Special interest groups, supported by extremely deep pockets, ply our government officials in ways that keep our Founding Fathers spinning in their graves so fast that if we were able to harness that energy we could light the Eastern Seaboard!Oh, yes, corporations are now classed as entities (individuals) who have 1st Amendment Rights to use their vast resources to sway opinion in campaigns, per Supreme Court 5/4 decision . Money equates to Free Speech. In other words, elections will now go the highest bidder. That will help.

These comments won't accomplish much. It is fun to banter with those who believe they must get in the last word and have little or nothing to add that is positive. What will matter is if we collectively do something about the situation. VOTE. Sounds trite, doesn't it? Get people in government that give a darn! I get one vote and as luck would have it, my sister's vote will almost always cancel mine. You get one vote and it is suppose to be worth something. We vote in public officials and they get behind the wheel of government and then it dawns on them that they have all this control over huge amounts of OUR money (not their own) and they go a little nuts. They don't budget well, they don't tighten their belts like we have to do. They ask themselves: where does the money come from and how do I get more to make the people that supply the services we provide happy? Think you can answer that one yourself? The issue isn't that we shouldn't pay taxes, it's more that the taxes are used so poorly. And we don't get to vote on how they are used on a day to day basis. Yes, that would be impossible but what I am trying to say is there is no "conscience" about what is right or not from the perspective of the people. We get very little say in the matter.

Andy, you are right, I'm not an economics major. I've had my requisite 5 semesters of economics to fulfill my degree and what I really took away from those economics classes (aside from great ideals) was that our system seems to run by loons! Going back to a CC for more insight will only convice me of the obvious: loons. Unfortunately, our elected loons are at the helm. We are not. Hang on to your hats. It's going to be a bumpy ride. If you don't like it, vote! But if the people you vote for become loons.....as seems to be the case anymore....well, maybe we just need to pay more taxes. Specifically households making over $250K or $125K individually, and businesses, we must tax them on their Gross income, not the Net income. And people that own businesses and make over $125K we get to tax twice! Oh, let's also make parts of the tax retroactive to 2009! Yeah!

That will certainly fix everything. Don't you agree?

"If you actually talk to any large business, their big problem isn't a tax here or there, but finding skilled employees."

You're right. "..(T)heir big problem isn't a tax here or there..." it's a tax everywhere - AND the very real prospect of more and higher taxes.

Employees can be trained or imported - like any commodity. You may feel that's an cynical attitude, Mr Friedman, but it's reality. What you feel has little effect on reality. For example, do you mean to imply that Kentucky's superior work force is the reason Toyota is there?

"...but money isn't happyness..."

Golly, even "happyness" isn't happiness...

Try talking out of some other orifice.