News Nov 18, 2011 at 9:35 am

Comments

1
I love how it looks like they're both spewing pepper spray at each other from their mouths...the way we will all evolve to do someday.
2
GOOD MORNING, SMIRK! HOW ARE YOU?!? I SINCERELY HOPE THAT THE ABOVE PHOTO BECOMES THE SYMBOL OF THESE PROTESTS. FOR THOSE UNFAMILIAR, THE CHEMICAL BEING SPRAYED IS COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS "OC SPRAY". THIS IS A CHEMICAL WHOSE USE IS BANNED BY THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION OF WHICH THE US IS A SIGNATORY. SO WE CAN'T USE IT AGAINST OUR FOREIGN ENEMIES, BUT WE CAN DEPLOY IT AGAINST OUR OWN CITIZENS.

I THINK THE NEXT STEP IS CALL ON THE CITY OF PORTLAND AND THE PPB TO UPHOLD INTERNALLY THE DECREES OF THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION.
3
Why bother pepper spraying Iraqi and Afghan civilians when we can kill them with guided (ha!) missles and drones?

But yeah, OC spray and gas was banned internationally in the 1972 Biological Weapons convention. Within the US different states have rules regarding strength and usage, but I can't find anything regarding Oregon.
4
So was it B11 who did the spraying? Or a helmet to be named later?

I took part in the March 25, 2003 Iraq War protest march where there was some egregious pepper-spraying in faces that the city later paid a settlement for. I happened to be on the side of the intersection where we didn't get sprayed, just shoved around by riot police. And we were on the sidewalks, doing nothing but chanting. Ancient history, I know, but it's sad to see that not much has changed in eight years.
5
I remember that too, Todd, and I hoped they'd learned something from that.
And to anyone who criticized people protesting against the invasion of Iraq back then, I'd just like to say in the most gracious possible way: fuck you, we were right, it should have been obvious why you were wrong at the time, and this obviously remains important not only to Iraq but to us as a nation. Thanks for undermining us on a national scale.
6
@geyser - I thought you were right back then, too. But blocking the sidewalk or blocking freeways (people did that!) wasn't doing anything to help. It's like pick-pocketing random people to cut down on rape - the second crime doesn't have anything to do with stopping the first.

In non-occupy news, I thought this was interesting: A Comtel Airlines flight from Amritsar to Birmingham landed in Vienna, said they didn't have enough money to refuel, and forced the passengers to all visit ATMs (under police escort!) and raise $31,500 before they'd continue the flight. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011…
7
Welcome to PDX, hippies!
8
I supported the protesting of the Gulf War '03.
Vet here too...
Just to shows that I'm not against all forms of protest.
Or protest in general.
9
It has a lot of symbolic value, pictures of a bunch of quasi-military folk actually guarding a bank.

So this Occupy tactic of going after banks is much closer to what the original idea was, but it's still symbolic at most. The people inside those banks weren't the ones who routinely crash our economy, use their money to buy any election of any significance in the U.S. and thought that moving our manufacturing base overseas would be a good idea.

What to actually do about it? No idea.
10
The bombs were falling on Baghdad, Reymont, and thousands of soldiers were soon to be sent off to their deaths. We were desperate to get people's attention. Most people, if you remember, seemed to be supporting the invasion, and thought the war would be a walkover, finished in weeks if not days. If streets were occasionally blocked, sorry.

So I do understand why Occupy Portland uses similar tactics. I don't necessarily agree that they're justified in this case. Marching near Wall Street in Manhattan is one thing, blocking Portland streets and scaring $10-an-hour employees in a Portland bank branch is another.

I was on the Burnside Bridge in '03 when those folks briefly blocked I-5 south. (I got around in those days.) There were only about ten of them, and most of us on the bridge, I think, considered the tactic both foolish and dangerous. On protester did end up rolling off the hood of a car, luckily at low speed.
11
Bringing up Iraq War protests, in this scenario, isn't a good move if you're trying to argue for the importance of protesting to effect change.
12
@Todd - Those are good reasons to try to stop the war. Those are NOT reasons to commit more crimes. Stopping someone's car in Portland had nothing to do with preventing the deployment of soldiers in Iraq. Both actions just made this a shittier place to live.
13
In civil disobedience and other protests that end in arrests, the object of the protest usually does not have to do with the offense(s) committed in the protest. If I commit criminal trespass to protest some corporation's deplorable activity, the corporate activity isn't directly related to the crime of trespass, but the latter still might be justified. The effect can be hard to gauge but it's a tried and true tactic. Saying that both activities just made this a shittier place to live is pretty cynical and myopic. Feb-March 2003 saw the largest mobilization in advance of a war in world history. If more people had joined in instead of sitting back and criticizing, who know what the effect might have been.
If you don't want to risk arrest, fine, do something else to make a change. But I was sick of all the passive, cynical kibitzing then and I'm just as sick of it now.
14
@REYMONT: I CAN SPIN YOU A TALE OF HOW PREVENTING THE MOVEMENT OF CARS IS A SYMBOLIC ACTION OF PREVENTING THE MOVEMENT OF TROOPS AND THE DEPENDANCE OF THE PEOPLE ON FOREGIN HYDRO-CARBONS.

BUT REALLY, YOU'RE SMARTER THAN THAT. PEOPLE GET TAKEN UP IN THE MOMENT AND DO STUPID SHIT THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE MOST LOGICAL SENSE WHEN EXAMINED CRITICALLY LATER ON. DOES IT REALLY MATTER IF I-5 GOT TURNED INTO A PARKING LOT BECAUSE OF ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS OR BECAUSE A BLAZERS GAME JUST GOT OUT? SOMETIMES TRAFFIC SUCKS AND GET TO GET ALL EXTRA-AGGRIEVED IS POINTLESS.

ALSO, MANY PROTESTS ARE ABOUT TRYING TO DRAW ATTENTION TO YOUR CAUSE, WHETHER THAT BE NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE ATTENTION; IT AT LEAST GETS PEOPLE AWARE OF THAT THE MESSAGE EXISTS. IF YOU REMEMBER THE PROTEST EIGHT YEARS LATER, THEY SUCCEEDED AT SOMETHING (JUST MAYBE NOT WHAT THEY REALLY WANTED).
15
But if you're only drawing attention, then all you're doing is making yourself feel better. Nothing wrong with that up to a point, but I get so tired of being told I'm doing nothing by someone who is also doing nothing, but loudly and in the streets.
16
@RB: I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID.
17
@rb....my sentiments exactly

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