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PO Box 86208, Portland, OR 97286
PO Box 86208, Portland, OR 97286
The irony is too much.
All lot of students don't educate themselves enough before signing on for all these loans. But if a school counselor really did tell her she'd be earning $100k fresh out of school (which I doubt), she was fed a load of horseshit. And any rational person would doubt that counselor's statement.
Summary: this is mostly her fault, but I feel sympathy for her.
That said, the reason students borrow so much is because public universities are receiving substantially less from state governments, which leads to tuition and fee increases. Between '08-'09, students on average paid $369 more in tuition at public research institutions, but schools lost $751 in state and local appropriations per student. At public community colleges, tuition revenue rose by $113 per student, while appropriations fell by $488. Students are left to make up the difference.
Horatio's got it about right - it is the right's mission to keep the populace dumb and scared. Un-funded and un-affordable education? Check. Perpetual code orange? Check.
I worry for a system where a primary aim of schooling is to come out with a more effective education to debt ratio.
But maybe I'm a hopeless romantic.
Yet when you examine any one transaction, it will be very easy to put all of the blame on the person who didn't know any better. Before it was the overly optimistic/financially illiterate (which describes a huge proportion of Americans). Now it's 18-24 year olds, who even more clearly shouldn't be held to be savvy risk/market evaluators.
WHO WILL BE THE NEXT DUMMIES TO BE SCAPEGOATED?
To be clear, I don't believe in this "right to a cheap, publicly financed college & grad school education" bullshit, but I think we need to do a way better job of educating kids AND ADULTS about realistically thinking about their careers and financial futures.
She's a Lincoln high grad and then went on to undergrad at UofO (for four years) and then the masters program at PSU (for two years). Assuming she's an Oregon resident, $100k seems way to much - wonder what a breakdown of how she spent the loans shows (she's a self professed gamer, but there's no way she would spend educational loan money for an x-box or nintendo or games, right?)
Also, her grandfather (RIP) appeared to have been a rather well known professor at PSU as well as a tax attorney and published textbook author. Unless something went askew in the family tree, she likely comes from a well off, highly educated family. Probably not the best poster child for the "movement."
I will never stop laughing
If we want to see some changes, we have to move beyond the "look at how much debt I'm in;isn't it sad?" narrative to something better. I think most people are aware that there are many students with a degree, lots of debt, and no job.
It's time that the federal government stopped handing out loans like candy to students who are chasing careers that do not exist! Remember, once these students inevitably default, the taxpayer is on the hook.
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/03/pioneers-in-solid-waste-second-tier.html
At 18, these are still basically kids with lots to learn about money, debt and supporting themselves. Someone needs to talk to them honestly about the cost/benefit of various types of degrees. Maybe this should be done in high school since parents are obviously not doing a good job of it - a required course at the end of senior year for those who are planning to go to college. Colleges won't do it, because they have a huge economic incentive to fill those liberal arts degree programs.
The sad thing right now is that even the old "sure thing" degrees are no longer sure things. I was just talking to a lawyer about the glut of newly minted lawyers being churned out with no jobs to greet them.
Student loan debt can't be eliminated in bankruptcy either.
I have a daughter that just turned 12 and, in addition to saving money for her college, I have also begun preparing her for her inevitable reality. I encourage her to begin thinking about what she might want to study and we will work on identifying more likely scholarship opportunities etc.. I want her to have every opportunity that I didn't but to also understand the full responsibility of her decision.
I don't know exactly what I'm getting at except that, yeah, it sucks, but there were choices made to take on that debt for your education and I don't think it should necessarily be written off.
You can learn more about IBR here - http://www.finaid.org/loans/ibr.phtml
Scroll down on the site to find a chart that shows the maximum amount you will pay for your AGI.
sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who went to Lincoln and is (presumably) from an educated family. I would have very little sympathy to ANYONE racking up that level of debt on a counselor's word, regardless of socio-economic status. but a masters in economics? really? does she not see the irony?
I did my undergrad in business at PSU, and then went straight into the same MIM degree that you have.
The cost is NOT $70k just for tuition. According to pdx.edu, "For newly admitted MIM students starting fall 2012, the estimated tuition and fees for the entire 15-month program will be $46,325. This includes the cost of the 3-week Asia field study."
Most of my classmates say the the MIM hasn't helped them at all, but it sure worked for me. Both the jobs I've had since graduation asked the school to recommend an MIM graduate, and found me that way. It was a great investment, for me.
From here out, it all comes down to networking and marketing yourself. Do Toastmasters, volunteer for the Board of Directors for a nonprofit, do something in politics, join the Rotary club or Young Professionals of Portland.
I fall around the $20k number for current student loan debt after a four-year degree at an in-state school. It's fully manageable, as I'm fortunate to be gainfully employed, and with the new rules changes I was able to lower my monthly payment for the next two years, which allows me to put more into savings each month.
I sure don't remember anyone telling me that I'd step into a $100k job after the MIM. What I DO remember is that they give preference to applicants who do have experience - It was a lot harder for me to get in without it. The phrase that the staff and professors kept using was "A Masters doesn't get you your first job, it gets you your second."
Do you have anything to point to, to prove that you were lied to? E-mails? Flyers? Anything?
I'm curious, did you both start your MIM's right after finishing undergrad? Most business schools want a solid 5 year work experience before going onto higher education, and I found that PSU is not in that camp. I have 5 years of senior level accounting and finance under my belt and that will get me the interview nearly every time, the MSFA is what seals the deal. If I had completed the program having no experience I feel that I would not have understood how to apply what I had learned. My Master's is extremely valuable, but without the combined experience it would be worth much less.
I was hired as a Business Analyst, which was a huge salary jump for me at the time but was still listed as a "entry-level position." Might have been the best possible outcome.
6 years later, and now I'm starting a second Masters degree in September. That sure wasn't in my plans, but my company offered to pay for this one and give me paid time off, so why not?
And that truly is a failure on PSU's part. No advanced business degree is worth anything without a decent level of actual experience.
And that's why I might be more sympathetic to Ms. Schantz after some reflection. As I understand it, PSU was pimping its business graduate programs pretty hard in the mid to late 2000s (how long has this MIM program been around?), so I actually can imagine that the PSU sales folks would have made those sorts of claims around that time.
Also, to Ms. Schantz, I may have been your stalker for the day, but despite temptation, I actually refrained from doing any image searches.
BTW, that trip to Asia cost half as much as my FIVE years at UO and I had no scholarships, only loans. Maybe that trip was a test.
"oh you actually ate that poisoned tuna from the ocean after the FDA cleared it. You should have convened some scientific studies, you idiot!"
Look up how consumer protection laws work in other countries. Our system is set up for you to get in debt and then the official line is to blame them for being stupid. Rational countries understand that there are cognitive defects and protect consumers from predatory action. For example, if you overdraft in the US, your bank can jack you (banks make 80% of profits from overcharges and fees). In the modern world, these practices are outlawed as vestiges of a barbaric economic past.
Glad to see that the snarky prick readership of a high quality publication tow the official line and overwhelmingly blame the victims. Splitters and scabs, the lot of you. Your morals suck.
Mathematician is conspicuously absent from the list.
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