This Week in Portland Shootings

Comments

1
Can we as a people finally agree that guns are too easy to get?
2
Wrong question fruit cup.

These guns were nearly all obtained illegally so why would the criminals that use them care about another law?


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D + 1
4
Easy access to guns includes illegal access, so Fruit Cup's question is valid.
5
criminals WOULD care about 'another law' if said law was strict enough in its penalties.....we're too easy on them -- the threat of a couple of years in jail isn't going to deter many, but the threat of say, life in prison, would.....
6
Make that 7...

http://flashalert.net/news.html?id=3056

Portland Police Investigating a Shooting in Southeast Portland's Brentwood-Darlington Neighborhood - 07/20/12
This afternoon, Friday July 20, 2012, at 12:36 p.m., Portland Police officers responded to the report of a shooting at a residence in the 7500 block of Southeast 69th Avenue. Officers and medical personnel arrived in the area and learned that the victim may have left the area.
7
pathetic.
8
Thanks C&B.
9
Why do liberals get so stupid when firearms get involved?

If anyone should be allowed to own guns, it's intelligent, reasonable, college-educated people. There is no "background checks" that this guy would have failed, there is no reason this guy shouldn't have owned these guns and more. Hell, I'm surprised he didn't have Surefire 100 round magazines.

You know what stops mass-murdering psychos? Responsible adults with Concealed Hand Guns. Read this: Someone should have shot this guy when he open fired. That's the only solution. Own up to it: this is the reason you call the cops, because they have guns. You don’t need the cops to feel safe if you’re packing.

But wait - why not just ban all firearms? Well, as a military veteran, I can give you one good reason: because some day this government is going to try and kill you. I know it seems farfetched right now, but take a look around you... do you think the value of the dollar is going to last forever? Do you have a feeling deep down inside you that this government is going to collapse some day? What if the cops stop coming around to your house because we don't have a police department anymore? What if gasoline drops out, food becomes very scarce, and people start getting really hungry? You and I both have the right - a Right with a capital R - to own military-grade firearms.

I know this is hard advice for some of you to swallow, and that’s OK. There’s reasonable, responsible, sane, humanitarians like myself who are sitting on dozens of firearms. We are the people who are going to protect your lazy asses from the rapists, murders, and other villains when the police are no longer in existence. We are responsible, peace-loving, firearm owners.

In fact, I would love to take Sarah Mirk - and anyone from the Mercury - and provide free professional firearms training. Email me: fidelity_axiom@yahoo.com
10
Yes, if there's one thing that was needed in a dark theater full of tear gas, with people screaming and running away from a man with several guns, it was ... another man with a gun, trained in how to fire the weapon, but *not* trained in how to deal with situations like that.

Obviously, a cursory scan of the headlines will reveal that police officers' training doesn't guarantee they do everything right. But it's a far sight better than the complete lack of training for dangerous situations like this that the average gun owner possesses, misguided dreams of grandeur notwithstanding.
11
@tODD - so....you prefer to remain helpless in that situation and pray that police arrive before the gunmen turns to you...?

I guess I'm not understanding the point of your comment, other than being cynical. Yeah, cops and responsible adults (the type who carry weapons), do not typically train to deal with mass murders inside of theaters who are throwing around tear gas - agreed.

Just admit it though, tODD: the one thing - the only thing - that could have stopped this tragedy was someone killing the shooter. People like you hope the cops get there in time to do it, I don't.

Here's a true story for you: Today, 12:30pm, while walking around in Pioneer Courthouse Square, there was a very disturbed black man who was spitting at people as they walked past, saying very racist things, yelling "I don't give a fuck", and trying very hard to provoke a fight. The unarmed "security" guard was 15 feet away, hiding - literally hiding - behind the corner next to Starbucks on his cell phone trying to reach the cops. The "security" guard told me straight up, "I can't do a thing about this, my company won't let me." I said, "Well, can you pull him off me when he starts beating my ass?" - "Umm....I'm not sure. Just wait for the cops man. They're on the way." - "OK, if they're not here in 5 minutes, I'm confronting him." After several minutes of watching this man, he spit on two old ladies, one young Asian guy, and one young dude who looked kind of Hispanic. I wasn't going to pick a fight with him, I was going to try and reason with him. The black guy starts mouthing off to a big dude – this big dude is wearing military gear, I think to myself, 'this guy looks like a veteran, and he's bigger than any of these chicken shits who are standing around helpless, I'm getting his help.' So, I walk past the crazy black dude, and come to the big guy, this guy is indeed a vet, and he agrees to pull this dude off me if he starts beating my ass. I start walking back to where the black dude was spitting on people only to find out he just got on the MAX train. I asked the security guard about the cops, "Yeah, they're not coming. He was threatening to kill people, I thought they would come. Apparently that's not important enough. He got on the MAX, went that way." I sprinted to the next platform, I was going to wait just in case this guy decided to spit on some old lady (or worse), but the doors were already closed and the train rolled on. Terrible shit happens in this world all the time. I feel confident in confronting that terrible shit, even when most people don't want to. That is probably what separates people like me from people like you.
12
So, according to your story, you didn't actually confront any of that terrible shit. In fact, the security guard who called the cops did more than you did, in that he called the cops, while you simply judged him as a chickenshit and stood around waiting for your self-imposed five minute time limit to run out.

Not to deflate your priapism of self-righteousness too much, but the point being made was that Police training, rather than regular firearms training, would have been necessary in the scenario you offer. Simply carrying a gun doesn't necessarily mean the training the owner has is adequate enough to halt a situation featuring a darkened theater, tear gas, and a man firing into the crowd.

Your response to that assertion was to offer up a story in which a scary black man spit on two old women and you didn't do anything.

Not the most effective of advertising techniques if you're looking for people to take you up on your offer of free firearms training.
14
@anonymous - You are correct, I did nothing. As the moment was approaching where I was going to act, the situation changed. You are correct, I in fact did nothing. But, you know what, neither did anyone else. 50+ people walked by in the few minutes I stood there waiting for police, at least 4 people were spit on, they walked up to the "guard" who was on the phone trying to get someone who could actually "do something" about this. I was at least *willing* to do something, but I was on my lunch break, I didn't want to spend the next 4 hours dealing with cops and police reports and explain why this dude picked a fight with me, so I stood there waiting for cops, waiting for this to escalate to physical violence. The security guard was unable to muster anything other than a phone call - in fact, it's only an illusion that he's there to help people, because his job requires him not to do anything.

I wasn’t trying to tell a story about being brave, my point of telling this story is that most people don't actually do anything, ever. They stand silently, or go to an "authority" to handle situations. I am not super human, I am not specially trained in any sort of fantastic way. I'm a regular guy for the most part; except, I stand up to put myself in harms way to protect other people, I've done it most of my life. There's lots of other "regular" folks who also do this, some of them join the police or military forces, just like I did. This predisposition of mine has put me into all sorts of very complicated situations, the incident today being just one sort, and a minor one. Also, I was not carrying a firearm during this incident.

Also, the concept of "police training" versus “regular firearms training” is bullshit. I train to shoot in real world stressful situations just as police officers do, there is nothing special about police firearms training except that they don't have to pay for bullets. Go look up Portland Police on Youtube and look at their shooting training, it's a bunch of horseshit, and you can emulate their training easily. Police pay for professional firearm training, we have Thunder Ranch in Oregon for this reason.
15
Look up crime rate in Oregon, by year. If you do, you'll see that our murder rate from 1977 until 1996 was higher than it has been since then, by a substantial margin. It was *common* to have 125-135 murders each year during that time span.

1996 is relevant, because that is when Oregon started issuing Concealed Handgun Licenses, and made it *easier* for people in this state to carry firearms. Since that year, murder totals have been between 68, and 91. Note that 68 is nearly HALF of what we had multiple times leading up to the laws changing.
16
Fidelity, you are a riot!

"There’s reasonable, responsible, sane, humanitarians like myself who are sitting on dozens of firearms. We are the people who are going to protect your lazy asses. ... People like you hope the cops get there in time to [kill the shooter], I don't."

And yet, "I was not carrying a firearm during this incident."

Yeah, well, you'll forgive me if I keep on relying on the police then, will you? Because they might be less likely to offer up a lame "I was on my lunch break ... so I stood there waiting for cops" excuse for not getting involved. I don't need heros like you.

"Go look up Portland Police on Youtube and look at their shooting training, it's a bunch of horseshit." Oh, but your research techniques are impeccable! Yes, go look it up on YouTube, that's how I learn everything!
17
Also, in your brave story, you forgot to mention the race of the following characters: the two old ladies who were spit on, the security guard, and the big dude. I assume they were all Native Americans unless otherwise specified; is that correct?
18
tODD,

Relying on the police for what? They aren't bodyguards. They are not proactive. In order for the police to take action, they require probable cause, or a crime having been committed.

Think about that.

If you haven't already drawn this conclusion, I'll lay it out for you: You will be a victim before police can do anything.

The only way in which police are able to prevent crime is through threat of consequence. This deters the least determined criminals. As we have seen, time and again, those with the most desire to do evil WILL, unless they are stopped while they are trying to.
19
@tODD - yep, Native Americans - how'd you know? The only reason I mentioned that the dude was black is because he was spouting off racist terms to folks walking by, it was a very racial event. I wear a tie with a tucked in shirt while at work, it's impractical for me to carry a firearm on me (I typically keep it in my briefcase at work), plus, it was pioneer courthouse square, there was 2 armed guards outside of the court house, one outside of wells fargo, and probably 10 cops within 5 blocks. I was much more concerned that he was going to punch a 70 year old lady in face than pull out a knife or gun. Remember: a dude did viciously beat an old woman at a MAX stop last year, when someone tried to stop the attack they were beat themselves. I was expecting to have my ass kicked and was OK with that.

Yet, when this dude spouts off "I'm going to kill you", while actively shouting "I don't give a fuck" and "I'll beat your fuck'n ass!" as witnessed by this security guard who is on the phone with his company trying to contact the police - the police still didn't think it was worthwhile to respond. Just some food for thought for you.

But honestly, I wouldn't have needed my gun, my dick is 20 inches long: I would have beaten him to death with it, then been all like “what up ladies?” and got laid like 10x. That’s the way I roll, gangsta!
20
Okay, so ... I just got, like, dick-rolled or something?
21
@FIDELITY_AXIOM: YOU CAN MAKE ALL SORTS OF SPURIOUS CLAIMS ABOUT HOW YOU WERE PUMPING YOURSELF UP TO ASSAULT SOME GUY WHO OBVIOUSLY NEEDED MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, BUT WHEN YOU TRY AND PULL OUT ASININE 'CORRELATION MEANS CAUSATION' STATISTICS ABOUT CONCEALED CARRY LAWS AND REDUCTIONS IN CRIME... WELL, THAT IS AN INJUSTICE THAT SHALL NOT STAND AROUND THESE PARTS!!

TO THE BASIC-GOOGLE-SEARCH-FOR-FACTS-MACHINE!

"For example, despite a large body of research, the committee found no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime"

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=03090…

I DON'T HAVE A PARTICULAR HORSE IN THE RACE IN REGARDS TO CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS, BUT I CANNOT ALLOW YOU TO THROW AROUND UNTRUTHS TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS.

22
@Graham - Getting my ass kicked to stop an assault on an old lady is not stepping up to assault someone.

Also, I didn't post any statistics.
23
The problem isn't too many guns. The problem is too many crazies.