Regarding the urgency, it should be pointed out, and constantly, that this isn't an aberration. We suffer gun violence on an enormous scale, there are thousands of dead children from gun violence every few months. It's become so commonplace that only the most extreme events are remarkable anymore. The media needs to start treating it like the ongoing holocaust that it is. And yeah, I'm going there, I'm using that word, and it's entirely appropriate.

The real danger is from EMP weapons.

I love the way that when people say "don't let little things like facts get in the way", they are referring only to the facts that support their point of view and not the facts that point in the other direction.

Like, you know, the fact that we DO have laws that restrict cars (speed limits for example), that nobody wants to get rid of.

Or the fact that more people use cars each day, so even if the total number of car deaths were higher, as a proportion they are much safer.

Or the fact that when a crazy guy goes into a school without a gun (as happened in China last Friday), it results in 20 injured instead of 20 dead.

If the constitution really does protect the right to own guns (which is dubious at best), it's time to change the constitution. And not let the NRA and their lackeys bribe (oops, sorry, donate campaign contributions to) lawmakers to make them oppose it.

I hate how people say things like "but we don't let little things like facts get in our way" right before trying to distort the argument. Nobody is talking about banning all guns. Get it through your thick, idiotic skull. We need better regulation. Traffic deaths used to be ten times worse before we did something about it. And I'm one of those who says we still aren't doing enough. We have a culture that says drinking and driving is no big deal, traffic fatalities are frequently treated no more severely than moving violations, these are two things that must change that I talk about constantly. You know when I don't bother talking about them? When there's a goddamn massacre from gun violence. So fuck off with your false strawmen arguments. Stop being part of the problem, it's people like you that are responsible for the tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths from gun violence that are easily preventable by properly regulating them.

Re: Stu, the 2nd amendment practically demands that we guns be well-regulated. That's one requirement in the 2nd amendment these these so-called pro-2nders don't give two shits about.

When this country *considers* ending the wars, I'll start to think American people are compassionate.

Until then, you're a fucking hypocrite if you trying to end violence through regulating civilian firearms. How about we start with regulating the state's guns, first?

I left a comment on GMN! regarding firearm availability. The free market speaks louder than any poll, and clearly gun sales are through the roof, there is not a single gun store in America with an AR15 on their rack for sale.

Even if there was a "ban" - that's not going to restrict the huge cache of weapons Americans already have - it will just make people with "assault weapons" more wealthy. For example, the value of my arsenal has probably gone up $1,000 since last week. Pass your ban, make me rich. I'll laugh all the way to the bank.

What's with the question about assault weapons and hunting? I don’t own my AK47’s for hunting: I own them to kill people. (Don’t worry reader, I own them to kill bad people, not you - I probably would like you and would share a beer with you.) I’ve hunted coyotes and prairie dogs with an AR15, but that is not it’s primary purpose. If I were asked that question, I also would have responded with "not necessary."

Well regulated means to be put in good order by the People who have Rights not to be infringed. The Bill of Rights is not a wish list. With every Right comes a responsibility. Guess what that means.

@gushapsho - There you go making things up again: I highly encourage people to start or join a militia. In fact, under the US Constitution, if you're between ages 17-45, and a male, you are in the Militia already (10:311).

Though, "well-regulated", within the context of the 2A, is synonymous with "proficient", as the founders were discussing “well-regulated” within militaristic terms.

When Russia's proxy, Iran, detonates an EMP over the US and we can't read the Portland Mercury online anymore, how are we going to be able to stop the invasion of Chinese ground troops in Mexican uniforms, without an M16 under our beds?

You will notice that most multiple-victim shootings occur in “gun-free zones” – even within states that have concealed-carry laws: public schools, churches, Sikh temples, post offices, the movie theater where James Holmes committed mass murder, and the Portland, Ore., mall where a nut starting gunning down shoppers a few weeks ago.

Guns were banned in all these places. Mass killers may be crazy, but they’re not stupid.

If the deterrent effect of concealed-carry laws seems surprising to you, that’s because the media hide stories of armed citizens stopping mass shooters. At the Portland shooting, for example, no explanation was given for the amazing fact that the assailant managed to kill only two people in the mall during the busy Christmas season.

It turns out, concealed-carry-holder Nick Meli hadn’t noticed that the mall was a gun-free zone. He pointed his (otherwise legal) gun at the shooter as he paused to reload, and the next shot was the attempted mass murderer killing himself. (Meli aimed, but didn’t shoot, because there were bystanders behind the shooter.)


http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/we-know-how-to-…

Nearly all these mass murderers are on uptake inhibitors which feature fluoride as the active ingredient, and they are also into Satanism.

I am so pleased you managed to bring this around to fluoride. Gold star, mister.

The debate around gun regulation seems to only treat a symptom rather than actually addressing the real cause of the rise of gun violence in our country. There is no doubt that proper reform can be positive but I am afraid it is masking some larger issues. Mental health, apathy about wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, the drug war) and an overall look at the violence our own country perpetrates in its media should be scrutinized and discussed. While there are more to our societies woes than mental health, war, and our overall immunity to violence in other countries other than are own, I believe a debate should be sparked beyond gun control.

Also, does anyone remember what happened with the government fast & furious scandal? Our own government smuggled weapons to Mexico. Weapons are BANNED in Mexico but the cartel's can still get their hands on them. Most people who would use a gun to harm someone is more than likely not going to go out of their way to follow the rule of law to safely purchase a gun. Maybe they would follow the rules but as a society we should really ask ourselves besides access to guns, what is causing these people to go off the deep end? I personally am sad that there are so many arms in our society. However, I can see that there are much deeper issues (mental health, unjust incarceration system, wars, and violence in the media) stemming from the recent uprising of gun violence.

Can we end the analogies to every other thing that's ever killed a human being? If you really don't see the difference between a car and a gun, then use your car to defend your house. You all damn well know that guns are far more lethal than whatever analogy you try to draw, which is why they get singled out.

I'm also not buying into the "gun-free" zone argument. Maybe they were targeted because they are gun-free, but more than likely they were targeted because they are crowded locations where people normally aren't worried they're going to get shot.

Finally, yes, mental health is an issue. No one thinks added gun control is the sole solution to the problem of violence in this country. Hell, no one REALLY thinks that it's a problem that can be solved in its entirety. But it can be reduced.

We could implement something similar to what Switzerland has; make it mandatory for every adult citizen to own a gun; learn how to probably handle said gun; educate them about the consequences. We must be responsible about guns; not irrational manchilds.

Here are some real crazy gun nuts....

Back in March DHS awarded an indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract to this company:
http://www.atk.com/news-releases/atk-secur…

Then DHS, who does not fight wars with foreign nations, promptly ordered the maximum of 450 million rounds over five years, almost exclusively Jacketed Hollow Point bullets, which are banned by the Geneva convention and can only be used domestically:
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-immigrat…

In late summer the National Weather Service ordered about 46,000 rounds of .40 S&W Jacketed Hollow Point bullets to be delivered to four locations – offices in Florida, New Jersey, Maine and Massachusetts.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nationa…


The Social Security Administration put in an order for 174,000 rounds of .357 Sig Jacketed Hollow Point bullets, for locations in Baltimore, L.A., Detroit, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Denver, Philly, Pittsburgh and Seattle ...... What?
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-th…

DHS to buy a further 750 million rounds of ammo:
http://rt.com/usa/news/dhs-ammo-rounds-sec…

Things that make you go hmmmm....

@chicostix I disagree that we should implement a system like Switzerland - their system is in place because they have no standing military. I personally have no desire to own or use a gun and that is just as much my right as ownership is yours.

I agree though that responsibility is a critical issue. How many of these incidents could have been prevented if guns had simply been properly stored?

When the Second Amendment was written, a gun was loaded through the muzzle. One shot, then a laborious process to load the next one. The right to bear arms needs to be viewed through this context. Times have changed, and using an amendment written for muzzle loaders to defend the right for civilians to own assault rifles makes no sense at all.

@dirnag05 - you're missing the point of the 2nd Amendment. Re-read the entire Amendment, and you'll discover that the founders created this as a substitute for a standing army. You should probably explore the definition of “Militia”, as well.

The Second Militia Act of 1792 required every citizen to purchase a military grade weapon (complete with bayonet mount), so the concept that our American ancestors did not want Americans civilians to own weapons on par with the standing army is laughable. If that was not their intent, the amendment would not specifically read “militia.”

@Aestro – We already have a system like Switzerland, though more conflated, every American male between the ages of 17 to 45 is a member of the Militia (USC 10:311), with some exceptions. One such exception is under religious/moral grounds that you think killing is wrong. However, under the US Constitution, you are still bound to the Militia, just within a non-combatant status, and anyone under the prescribed conditions is a part of the “Unorganized militia.” Before 1903, our Militia system was nearly identical to Switzerland, in the sense that if you enlisted in the military, you kept your weapon afterwards and stored it at home.

Also, the Swiss have a standing army, and all Males are required to join (though, according to Wikipedia, 20% opt out).

I don’t think any of these recent shootings could have been avoided with “proper” storage (by this I assume you mean a safe). If I was damned determined to get into your safe, I’d cut your toes off one by one until you gave me the code. Criminals have done the exact same thing in home invasions. Criminals and psychopaths will never have a problem acquiring weapons.

@ fidelity_axiom. I have read the 2nd amendment, thank you. So, your line of thinking is that the private citizenry should be able to step in and serve as a back up army? Am I correct in that interpretation?

If so, then that citizen army is gonna get its collective ass kicked by any REAL army, which is going to be equipped with far more sophisticated weaponry than anything the public can legally buy and own.

So obviously, the solution is for everyone to up the ante. Let's allow the public to purchase RPGs, tanks, fighter jets, SAMs, etc. Because clearly, that's what the intent of the 2nd amendment is.

Meanwhile, we'll just keep getting schools, malls, theaters and other public places shot up because everyone has a right to own an AR-15 and live out their Rambo fantasies.

Hitler tried to take Switzerland and failed.

"It turns out, concealed-carry-holder Nick Meli hadn’t noticed that the mall was a gun-free zone. He pointed his (otherwise legal) gun at the shooter as he paused to reload, and the next shot was the attempted mass murderer killing himself. (Meli aimed, but didn’t shoot, because there were bystanders behind the shooter.)"

You have no way of knowing that Meli's actions caused the shooter to kill himself.

And sorry, but the examples in the Ann Coulter post you referenced don't tell the entire story. Many of those so-called civilians were off-duty cops, ex-Marines, security personnel. Try this instead...
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/…

This whole notion that armed civilians keep us safe doesn't line up with the 32,000 gun deaths a year that say otherwise.

If the mayor and council had not contaminated the pristine water from Bull Run with fluoride, this tragedy might well not have occurred. This sort of thing has never happened here before. I hold Sam Adams and Randy Leonard personally responsible.

Even if it is just a placebo effect.

I wonder if Sam Adams and Randy Leonard are high degree Masons, by any chance?

http://www.ritualabusefree.org/Freemasonry…

@ single bullet:

dude, they haven't added fluoride to shit yet. look it up, man -- all they did was vote on it.

funny that you should bring up placebos, though: your whole belief system and world view is thanks to the placebo effect of you thinking you actually have a functioning brain.

Just the thought of fluoridating Portland's pure, clean, Bull Run water supply is enough to create a Prozac placebo effect causing people to snap, in much the same way that operating heavy machinery increases the effect of Empirin Compound.

@dimag08 - Yes, I do believe in a citizen's army, under the form a Militia, to replace the standing army. As a Veteran, I can tell you that this is an absolute necessity, in fact, "necessary to the security of a free State" - without a Militia, we are not a free state at all.

Your comment about militias versus real Army is just completely ignorant to military history. Militias, especially the "well regulated" type, are extremely effective in defensive situations. It only takes about 12 weeks of training for a civilian to be converted into a US Army soldier.

FYI - law abiding civilians (i.e. you) can already purchase "RPGs, tanks, fighter jets, SAMs, etc." you just have to file the right paperwork and pay some fees. In fact, I could sell you a nuclear warhead for $250 million dollars. The thing about the free market, and these complex weapons, is the cost prohibitions. If you want any piece of weaponry, you can buy it, but you likely won't be able to afford the ammo, maintenance, or perhaps the weapon it's self.

To make up for these short falls in a Militia (like, how many people in Portland would want to buy a tank?), the state has to provide certain equipment. Look up Switzerland's model, they, for example, have annual government-sponsored shootings where the government provides all the ammo. The National Guard already has storehouses of equipment.

People In Northland ‘Panic-Buying’ Military-Style Rifles
December 24, 2012

Minn. (AP) – Northland gun dealers are reporting a spike in military-style gun sales.

Pat Kukull, owner of Superior Shooters Supply, says they are out of semi-automatic rifles due to people “panic buying.” Some buyers are afraid of possible changes the federal government could make to gun laws.

She says other guns are selling fast as well and she’s never seen anything like it in her 35 years in business.

Glen’s Army Navy Store in Grand Rapids ran out of the semi-automatic rifles by Thursday morning and operators aren’t sure when more will arrive.

Scott Van Valkenburg is owner of Fisherman’s Corner in Pike Lake outside Duluth.

He says the semi-automatic rifles are usually about 5 percent of his thriving gun business but last week sales were nearly half of his gun sales.


http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/12/24/p…