Comments

1
FIRST!!!!

(Yessssssss. Also, good column, Barbara!)
2
So under this scenario, Miley Cyrus is a feminist, and Rashida Jones is not. Check.
3
I agree that slut shaming is a bad thing, and I don't like the way Rashida phrased her argument. But I think she may have been trying to imply that women such as Gaga and Miley are substituting provocativeness for actual talent. Men do it too, Robin Thicke, every boy band, etc. The real problem is that the over exposure that comes from the provocativeness; Lady Gaga writes and performs really average music but people often refer to her as a genius. If your dad is Quincy Jones, an honest to god musical genius, I think it would be pretty irritating to listen to people refer to Miley and Gaga (and Robin and Beiber) as the same thing, when they are obviously mildly talented musicians but amazing fame whores (I don't mean to fame shame). Portland has the same problem, every 20-something thinks all of his or her friends are geniuses for playing guitars or selling crafts on Etsy pages. Pythagoras was genius, Storm Large is just a tall singer.

Is my time up?
4
"That's why I'm so glad no one respects me." Never a truer word been spoken. If you're not at least going to go through the effort of respecting yourself, why should anyone else? I mean, this 'column' has made me lose respect for you and your ability to critically analyze the topic at hand. You entirely miss the point of Ms Jones's essay and completely misrepresent her position. Your column essentially is composed of false allegations and misappropriated quotes.

For instance this quote from Ms Jones that you ignored:

"Let's at least try to discuss the larger implications of female sexuality on pop culture without shaming each other. There's more than one way to be a good feminist. Personally, I loved the Lily Allen "Hard Out Here" videoβ€”a controversial send-up of tits-and-ass culture. She helped start a conversation. Let's continue it."

And the quote you misappropriated in regards to the number of innuendos was Ms Jones attempting to describe the manner in which network TV censors analyze their material, not about how women in general should act. But even so, she is still roughly correct that a call for moderation in innuendo and sexuality could be a good thing, especially in the context of women being forced by a capitalistic/paternalistic society into marketing their bodies and sexuality for money because they have no other choice.

Seriously thought, this column is lazy. If Ms Holm isn't going to put forth even the barest of modicums of effort to try and speak towards important topics (like social justice and shit), she should just go the Alex Falcone route and just write something that is simply humorous.

Shit, this is so poorly constructed I give up. You win. Sure whatever fucking inane non-sequitur that you mistake for a joke is great. Put more of them in. That's wonderful.
5
Anybody else think it's weird that Rashida Jones specifies the INSIDE of a vagina? Maybe I'm following the wrong people on instagram but I don't think I've seen the inside of anybody. Closest we got was when Katie Couric had that colonoscopy on the Today show, but that was her butt, not her vagina, and it definitely was not sexy. I think it upped her popularity, though, so Rashida had at least that part right.
6
At the very least, please keep your cleavage covered and your ass loosely-clothed at funerals -- it's a bit hard to appreciate your spectacular, half-exposed breasts and your perfectly shaped fanny with tears in my eyes.

Anyway, how am i supposed to concentrate on the sermon nagging me to make sure to have properly accepted the (correct) Lord as my savior before i kick off when your seductive outfit is instead driving my thoughts toward playing 'Adam and Eve' with you in the pastor's quarters while everyone else is waiting in line to nibble on Soylent White-esque wafers and sip on not-nearly-enough wine?

STOP BONER-IFYING MY BEREAVEMENT WITH YOUR LACY BRAS AND STRETCHY MINISKIRTS, VILE TEMPTRESSES!!
7
This could have been a great column, except once again barb has insisted on making up an experience to thrust herself into the middle of the column. I don't doubt that Barb hooked up with her girlfriend and I don't need photos to prove it or anything, but I don't for a moment believe that barb's friends response was that lesbian sex was only for men's enjoyment. Barb, please stop making up your column!
8
2014 New Years Resolutions:

1. Read more whore books
2. Save more whore money
3. Lose all my whore weight
4. Redecorate (a whore)
5. Take better whore photos
6. Go whore traveling, with a whore
7. Sell old unwanted whore stuff on eBay
8. Buy a whore tablet
9. Organize whore photos
10. Do something for a whore charity
11. Spend more time with kids, looking like a whore
12. Buy a Sunday paper, to catch up on whore Oregon
13. More whore TV time, because its whoretastic
14. Connect my computer to my whore TV
15. Leave my whore work on time more often
16. Less time on Whore-Facebook
17. Totally revamp my whore wardrobe
18. Try a new whore hairstyle
19. Get a whore six-pac
20. Add a little whore to my cereal each morning
9
Wasn't Rashida Jones engaged to accused rapist Tupac Shakur?
10
Barbara, when you get so many responses from so many people who don't like your column but read it anyway, you're doing something right. Also, I'd love to see the cowards use their real names like you do.
11
You dudes that hate Holm's writing so much that you obsess over every little syllable every single week searching for flaws and imperfections are really winning at life. Way to contribute.
12
I don't even bother reading these columns anymore. But god damn, love the comment threads.
13
Please stop using the term "slut-shaming." It's disgusting and disrespectful to women. Women who are shamed for their sexuality are women, not sluts. If it's considered "taking back" the word, then why has it become acceptable for men to use it?

Rashida Jones was awesome to say what she said. As a young bisexual Feminist, I would like to see sexuality toned down a lot in our culture. I am inundated with images of scantily-clad or naked women everywhere I go. Frankly, it's distracting. I feel the same way about food advertisements or advertisements in general. It's like visual pollution constantly trying to manipulate me to buy something or adhere to some corporate agenda. They are using our bodies like a minstrel show for people's entertainment and corporate profits. I see nothing empowering about that.

Don't trample on another Feminist because she doesn't share your opinions; she's older than you and she may hold some wisdom that you haven't yet to grasp.
14
"Katie Couric had that colonoscopy on the Today show, but that was her butt, not her vagina, and it definitely was sexy"


QUOTE ALTERED TO REFLECT MY VIEWPOINT.
15
Wm, why did your editorial board instate the draconian policy that it is mandatory for Graham to read and comment on this column every week?
16
You people (ALL OF YOU) are abusing me. You're completely missing the point of me. Fuck. This is like watching monkeys throwing shit at each other, week in and week out. I have so many other uses, people. Jesus.

What you're doing here is tantamount to using an iPod to listen to Robin Thicke while sitting on your fat ass instead of using it to learn a second language while jogging. Stop it. Stop it this very instant.

Now navigate to another website. NOW.
17
oh, Graham, save it for your vows, sweetie.

Yeah, Alex Falcone is SOOOOOOOOOO funny!!!!!!!!!!!!
18
I like this article.

I think it's funny that Rashida Jones defends herself in GLAMOUR MAGAZINE. Can we just take a moment for that.

The opinion of Rashida reminds me of a notion that isn't often examined. Basically, if you are conventionally attractive (i.e. button nose, nice eyebrows, symmetrical faces, etc [I imagine someone arguing "ACTUUALLY button noses are NOT what is considered attractive, because...so *buzzer noise* you're wrong and dumb and I hate your guts"]) and you dress in tight, low-cut, bikini-esque clothing - you are a sad, attention seeking "whore". BUT if you are less conventional (i.e. Lady Gaga - let's be honest, she's not that unconventional - but for Hollywood's sakes..) or say transgendered, a gay man, drag queen, (also, I'm NOT saying all of these examples equal each other in any other regard) then you are celebrating your freedom, expressing yourself, being artistic. I can't say that's how Rashida thinks, but that's certainly implied. Also, while I don't really thiiiiiink Miley Cyrus, ("Blabby"), is a feminist by definition... you CAN a feminist and ride a wrecking ball naked and lick a hammer. You're statement was a little silly.. (please review the ever-historical Madonna-Whore argument)

Rashida - you sound like you might be feeding INTO the thing you hate. You are unaware that you are indirectly associating women with big boobs, cupcakey boobs, long legs, etc, etc as beautiful or hot and those that are less likely to be on the cover of a magazine are not hot thus artsy/fartsy thus couldn't be "whores"/"it's fine if they are less dressed" (even further, "bc they are probably smart/smarter.")

Also I think it's silly to say things like "Please stop saying slut-shaming..........." like one person is responsible for creating it. I read that as "I think that I'm more of a feminist than you are." and that's just nasty and competitive. This next thought is just a general one, sparked by that comment above but I'm going to use you - commenter - as the example. If you are on the same side of the greater argument that women should be treated with respect, why don't you present your argument to serve that purpose better? Maybe say "I am a feminist and I've thought maybe that slut-shaming word isn't so great bc it has the word slut in it...[your refreshing and valuable point]..". Don't "word-shame" or compare the word slut to the n-word (at least so casually or carelessly - maybe in a term paper..). ie by saying the marked phrase "taking the word back"; the n-word is awful. Slut-shaming is a term used with positive context for good - but you're right, maybe it could be altered and maybe we shouldn't use it, hadn't thought of that (i could've had a V8 moment). I just didn't care for the delivery.
19
I loved this column, Barbara.
20
Congrats on getting someone to take time out of their life to create an account called "The Internet" and write a post in character, Barbara!
21
"but one time I hooked up with a girlfriend of mine in the privacy of her room."

If it was in the privacy of her own room, for the two of you alone, then you wouldn't be discussing it in a public forum.

A lot of your comedy seems to be self-aggrandizing humblebrags aimed at being sexually arousing to men, instead of actually being witty or thoughtful like Sarah Silverman or Amy Schumer (two lady comics whose material mostly consists of sexual jokes). Case in point (from your twitter):

@barbaraholm I'm trying to do more charity work. Like right now I visit this poor unemployed young boy and help him eat... out my pussy.

@barbaraholm Body image standards are so hard right now, sorry not body image standards, men's dicks are hard right now, because of my butt

@barbaraholm Got called beautiful and told I had a horrible voice in the same hour #comedy

@barbaraholm I just spilled tempeh in my bra. Super gross, right? When did I start wearing bras again?

@barbaraholm Got hit on while reading a comic book while drinking alone in my friends bar. MY VULNERABILITY IS NOT AN INVITATION

@barbaraholm this guy told me I was really pretty, I was like gurl, you haven't even seen me cry yet

@barbaraholm I know I'm sorta cute or whatever but I wanna be the kind of pretty that is incapable of farting

It's like you are obsessed with pushing the idea on people that you are hot, and I don't consider that to be 1) entertaining comedy or 2) indicative of someone who is intent on dismantling patriarchy.
22
Brandy, the word slut is very much akin to the n-word. The n-word is considered positive to many black people, as it has become a synonym for "brother" when used in the right context. The struggle of black people has not been historically longer and harder than the struggle of women the world over. Women have been slaves for a lot longer than black people, whatever that category even means, because Africa is a whole fucking continent with diverse ethnic groups and a rich history. Don't forget that the first civilization began in Africa and they had slaves! Do black women in America have it harder than white women? You bet your fucking ass they do. But you will consistently see that women's privilege is lesser than men of all racial categories.

I don't need to rephrase what I say for your comfort. I would argue with someone about their use of the term "slut-shaming" regardless of their gender or feminist status. I'm not being nasty and competitive. I think you confuse "having an opinion and arguing it passionately" with competition. Therein lies the sexist assumption that women can't have a debate without it being about competition. If I wanted to compete with someone, it wouldn't be Barbara.

You ask "If you are on the same side of the greater argument that women should be treated with respect, why don't you present your argument to serve that purpose better?" Well, first off, because I don't consider the notion that "women should be treated with respect" as a dogma but an inborn attitude that is eroded by culture (much like racial equality -- What baby is born hating his or her mother? What little girl is born thinking she is inferior?). Criticizing Barbara or thinking she's misguided does not translate to me hating women as a whole. I would argue in the same way with a man or agender person, and don't give preferential treatment to women. I would want my opinions deconstructed as an equal, not a fragile flower who needs to be placated or patted on the back for effort.
23
Just scimmed the blog...blah blah blah....
Though I am curious why she refers to CUNT as the C-Word, but readily calls people Dicks...?
24
I'm so confused... am I even allowed to look at titties anymore?
25
If people are taking offense at my comparison of the n-word to the word slut, I in no way mean to detract from the awful, dehumanizing origins of that word. All I'm saying is that women have been used as sex slaves and considered inferior for centuries prior to the African diaspora. We continue to be raped, murdered, and sold into sex slavery on a scale that would be considered genocide or hate crime if it were inflicted on a racial group. We continue to be portrayed in the media as useful for one purpose in a way that would be abhorrent if it were aimed at a racial group. Gender violent language is used so liberally, women are referred to as female dogs in an entire genre of music and elsewhere, where it would be censored if that hatred were aimed at a racial group. Most sweatshop workers are women because they are considered more docile. Women are denied access to education, and that is the norm all over the world. The first slaves arrived in Virginia in 1619, and that racial injustice has continued until today. Women, however, were taken as child brides, beaten and kept as house-cleaning baby-making sex slaves with no education or representation since, well, Monotheistic religions took hold. People don't want to make the analogy, but it's important. The fact that people are unwilling to look at it makes it very clear that racial injustice takes precedence over gender injustice.
26
Ms. Holm, am I to understand that you actually read your Betty & Veronica funnybooks at the bar?
27
This has some great language, metaphors, and turn-of-phrases. I really liked how this was written. I disagree with some of the ideas, but I love how Ms. Holm presents them. This is funny, and I'm glad I read it.
28
How about when Buffy said Dawn was dressed like a "slut-bag hussy"? There's your next column.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0533441/quotes…
29
Truth is.. I just really don't like Rashida Jones, personally. I am jealous of her self-confidence and ability to express herself. Plus, my boyfriends have all had crushes on her because of her smile and non-threatening boobs (see also, other crushes: Elisha Cuthbert, Zoe Deschanel, and Scarlett Johansson). [see: sarcasm] (I'm really hoping you say, Brandy: even you mentioning it as a joke means there is TRUTH to it and citing some psychology study).

Viola, Oh..I am WELL-AWARE of the plight of women and do not think that isn't similar to the oppression of the black race/African Americans. Upon review, you will see you said not to use the term "slut-shaming". Yes, I see the word "slut" is in the term slut-shaming. And I agree with you. We shouldn't say slut. But, it is a word that if used in academic, socially-scientific, hydromatic arguments and debates - and thoughtful, thought-provoking columns - so I just think you went a little overboard. And it was a lot preachy. And MY POINT was to say YOU SOUND COMPETITIVE - because I was, again, aware that there is a competitive nature inherent in women BECAUSE OF (but not arguably also scientifically naturally occuring due to evolutions) social structures built since civilization. - and I thought it was ironic that you (who likely too are levels above this women's 101 ideology) were coming off as competitive. So, I saw it less of an "passionate opinion (,Brandy)" and more of an opportunity for you to be condescending. (word-shaming were it didn't belong). But, you make great points and I'm on your side of the greater issues at hand.

Also, while I'm not trying to fuck Barbara (or eat her out, oh, same thing ;) sees I am smarts and in with the know.. in case you wanted to go there..) probably a lot of people are, I don't see why not, sure, I just want to say that her tweets (above mentioned) come from a comedian (herself). And I get it. Ya know that's all I wanna say. I get it. You don't get it. And I got real pleasure out of the Sarah Silverman/Amy Schumer comment. It's rhetoric. It's shining a sarcastic light on the realities of society - and sometimes that involves bras and tempeh. And for someone to not talk about WHAT HAPPENS IN HER LIFE to protect you or not alienate someone at the cost of not HAVING SOMEONE RELATE, she would be going against the powerful properties of comedy, art, etc. I will defend that idea.

Agreed, it is ironic that the column has the word "Dick" in it. I am curious about learning more regarding the defense there, could be a good read.

Lord, please forgive Rashida..she know not what she do. Almost forgot..I hate being plastered with images of naked women everyone (i.e. ads) for one because they are photoshopped - but I could go on forever. Rashida said a blanket statement for something she was specifically angry about and then defended it, again: Calling women who show their vaginal walls [dress in tight, short clothing] whores....excuse me, better yet "ACTING LIKE WHORES" (Classic. "I didn't CALL you a bitch, I said you were ACTING like ONE".) So, what is a whore, Rashida? I hope to read the answer one day in Cosmopolitan.
30
@Brandy: What does the word 'hydromatic' mean? I cannot find anything that makes sense in context here.
31
You know, I think men should be flaunting moose-knuckles and wearing sleeveless shirts to show off our guns, at every occasion, because dammit, we are oppressed -- and every man that disagrees with me obviously doesn't understand mans rights.
32
Brandy,
Questions: At what point do boobs go from non-threatening to threatening? Is there threatening-boob differentiation? Perhaps a TITCON scale? Is there a survival protocol if I ever happen to be at TITCON 1?
33
Barb, we do find it hard to respect you. Not based on your concepts, but because you express and defend them so poorly. Commenting negatively on your column makes me sad. You're funny, but you seem to have the mind of a child. I hope that works out for you. :(
34
"And MY POINT was to say YOU SOUND COMPETITIVE - because I was, again, aware that there is a competitive nature inherent in women BECAUSE OF (but not arguably also scientifically naturally occuring due to evolutions) social structures built since civilization."

Well, you're making assumptions. For one, I don't identify as a "woman," but more an agender person in a female body because I have a pretty masculine brain and land somewhere high-functioning on the ASD spectrum. No one thinks the men on here who are critiquing Barbara's article are "competing," so please stop stereotyping me.

Women aren't evolutionarily competitive. Theoretically, women developed more complex communication skills to settle disputes because it is extremely important to maintain functioning relationships with other women (women stay at home with babies and elders while men hunt). Women also don't need to compete for sex because we can choose and have sex with lots of partners freely and our eggs will be fertilized regardless. Another woman does not represent a threat to our reproduction. Men need to compete (which is why males of the species are often the ones with showy plumage, etc.) because they have lesser opportunity to pass on their genetic material. I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but that's what I've read.
35
Viola you have some great points. I agree with your biological points, but I will disagree that women are not competitive, whether it be reproduction or overall, some women are highly competitive. But that fact does fit with your point about stereotyping however. Very intelligent points, thank you.
36
Women ARE competitive, but I believe this to be a more recent thing as it would make tribal relations really difficult. I think it's a result of monogamy/patriarchy/marketing (which could all fit under the umbrella of patriarchy).
37
Someone has both boobs, and opinions? This is terrible and I must comment my rage. Where are my heroes, the white men of the internet? Please, like my comment. Thank you. I hate women.
38
Because Misogyny only has white faces, right Shawn?
Or perhaps you are suggesting that only white mysogynists use the internet?
39
Extreme male feminism is the best disguise for serial rapists.
40
Annnn Perkins!
41
Wow is there a lot of vitriol, misinformation and general idiocracy going on in the comments this week. I'll comment on them rather than Barbara's article. I won't be naming names I'll just be blindly responding to what stuck out as particularly awful Internet and/or human behavior.

I'll preface this by saying Barbara is a friend. What this means is that most of you will just believe he to be a brainless lapdog who agree with everything she says and is he to defend her. I don't want to hurt your feelings but I don't always agree with her (though I do here) and she doesn't need help defending herself... Unless it involves The First, then it's all hands on deck.

So where do I start, .. OK the C-bomb being compared to the word "dick."first I'll be fair, this is sort of an American thing but being that this is written from an American perspective those are the rules we use. Also I'm not going to give a full entomology class here. Just basics. IN America the "C" weird is pretty widely known as the foulest of the foul. The meaning behind its use is almost always the same and the meaning, not the word, is usually the point. Whereas the word "Dick" has never had that kind of power or hate being it. If you are serious about this point then I assume you also fight the use of wired like "jerk" "ass" and "shit"

Comparing the "N" word to that "S" word is... Well it's really offensive and counterproductive to any point you were attempting to make. It cheapened the harshness of all of the facts you gave to justify the comparison. I honestly believe you owe an apology to many different groups of people for that one.

Attempting to build an argument against Barbara's comedy based off of a few hand picked tweets is just silly. Maybe base it off of her actual act, maybe you've never written jokes before but it's a process. Please I invite you to go find Silverman or Schumer at an open mic. While you are at it write three minutes and give it a short yourself. Then go on and do give minutes, then ten minutes etc... Let's see how many things you write out make the cut. White you are at it have the guys to try those things out in a public place like twitter.

Lastly, talking about a private sexual experience doesn't make the act less private. Doing it in front of people would. Saying that taking about it makes it not a private moment is like saying she should be ashamed of it...

Basically what I am saying is, Grow up. Internet.
42
@Joe: I always appreciate it when the response to a criticism is, "You're not allowed to criticize that person unless you've also been a cook/president/movie-maker/etc." It's a way of lying to yourself about the motivation of the person criticizing, it's the intellectual's lazy version of "haters gonna hate".

But the ultimate irony here is that Barbara based her entire fucking poorly-written column on a hand-picked tweet from Rashida Jones and THEN you come in here and say how hand-picking one fucking tweet out of a larger body of work isn't fair. DO YOU SEE THE IRONY (I know it's not actually irony, it's just hypocrisy)?
43
god just man up and ask her out on a date already, dude
44
(that was sarcastic don't actually do that you're weird)
45
Naming a word "The C-word" and then chastising us to grow up is more than a little rich, eh Joe?
46
@ Joe Blower

Since you are referencing "entomology" classes and the "C" word I will assume you meant "cockroach".

I also hope that you understand that a weekly column is probably not the same as a bit you refine in front of your friends at the local dive bar on an open mic night. Theoretically the written word is to be refined through editing before it is presented to the public.
47
Thanks for bringing up Sarah Silverman too Joe, though I don't think she shares your opinion on "the C-Bomb".

http://jezebel.com/sarah-silverman-breaks-…
48
Slut-shaming is overused and abused. While Rashida Jones comments were not expressed in the most appropriate manner, policing and attacking someone who is trying to point out a much larger systematic issue is not going to push forward our discussions of feminism and sexuality. Slut-shaming is a buzz word that is now thrown at any women who does not celebrate the sexual actions of another. Where do we draw the line?

If anything let's look at the deeper issues that create the divide in opinions of feminism and its relationship to sexuality; instead of dismissing what the opposing view has to say. I'm not celebrity but I do know that the context that female celebrities find themselves is in a patriarchal one that as a majority caters to the male gaze. So from that context, I don't want to demonize or put down females in that industry that use their sexuality to become more successful. Even with this opinion, I can see how it could be frustrating for Rashida to see her peers having to navigate their way to fame through this structure. Rashida sees her peers use of sexuality as a means of increasing their value to the viewers. Sex sells, and it's a commodity that is very valuable in the entertainment industry.

Is this an argument where you are either 'with us' or 'against us'? I know that as feminists we are above this and have the capability of having a discussion that is constructive and enlightening rather than dismissive and a holier than thou contest.

What I see missing from this discussion is the instersectionality of race and age in regard to female sexuality. As a whole, through the medias lens, female sexuality is often referring to skinny young white female sexuality. Not to say that this all that is spouted from the medias lens. However, this tends to be the default. If we want to be inclusive and allow people of all body types, races, and ages, to openly be proud of their sexuality, a larger discussion can be had on how we can challenge the 'norm'. Let's really celebrate our sexuality as whole and not only as a minority who fit the mold or come close to fitting the mold.

Sexuality is complex and ever changing. Lets not get caught up in he said she said blah blah blah. What are the important societal/systematic issues at hand that pit us against one another in debate and that allows people to profit off of the male gaze. We are bigger than this petty arguing. To dismantle this arbitrary system lets not demonize one another and get to the root of this problem.

Please wait...

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