Grand Jury Clears Police Officers in Fatal Shooting of Patrick Kimmons

Comments

1

Like any other outcome was to be expected. Cops exist to kill people and they are never held accountable for murdering the people they murder.

2

What would you have them do, Christina? Raise their hand for attention and say "pardon me, sir, yes you there, the one firing your gun downtown at 3 am at other people, we'd like to respectfully request you harness your weapon and cease all hostilities!"

No, but seriously, what do you think is the proper response from police when there is an active gunfight going down that puts everyone around it in danger of being struck by a bullet? Just let the guy keep shooting until he runs out of bullets and hope he doesn't actually kill someone?

3

Well @2, your sarcasm aside, yes I actually do expect cops to not murder people.

Since cops manage to bring in white male mass shooters every time without murdering them, I expect them to either diffuse the situation without shooting or end it without murdering someone if they do have to discharge their weapons.

It can be done, they do it all the time when they want to - the key being when they want to. The shooter in Pittsburgh who murdered 11 people also shot three police officers. He's still alive. They even took him to a nearby hospital where Jewish nurses and doctors were made to work on him and make sure he didn't die. Dylan Roof was taken alive and in fact after murdering a group of black people in a church they took him out for a burger and fries before they booked him.

Cops, when they want to, can and do shoot and take down suspects without killing them - even when suspects are armed and shooting at them, even when the suspect has just killed a group of people in a synagogue or a church or are shooting directly at the police.

I believe the proper response as trained officers is to take people down, whatever the situation, without murdering them. Every time. Period. That is what I think is the proper response.

There are tons of articles on how and why this is possible when the people the police are dealing with are white. Here are three of them.

https://www.theroot.com/taken-without-incident-why-white-criminals-end-up-aliv-1790857544

https://blavity.com/11-times-police-successfully-disarmed-white-people-without-killing-anyone/

https://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

4

3.
Awesome response to 2.
Thank you.

6

@Christina, I say this with all seriousness. It sounds like you know how cops should be doing it. You should get hired, make $90k+ per year, and show them how it's done.

The Pittsburgh shooter was shot multiple times by cops, and was taken to a hospital where he happened to live. Kimmons was shot multiple times by cops, was treated on scene by cops, and taken to a hospital, but happened to die while enroute. Are you suggesting that intentional shot placement was the difference? I don't think the data on shot placement on the Pittsburgh shooting is available yet. Using this analogy to show how the Portland shooting was police bias is genuinely flawed.

Cops shoot and kill whites. Cops also bring in non-white shooters alive. Each situation is different. The facts of this one clearly support the officers actions.

7

@5 and @6 As a citizen of this state and this country, I get to criticize and hold public officials accountable. I get to find the actions of police officers reprehensible. I get to be angry and sick that every single day a black person is murdered by cops and white mass murderers get taken out for lunch. I get to have my own opinion about this particular incident and about law enforcement nationwide. I also get to express it here or anywhere else and in any manner I choose (as long as I am not hurting anyone).

And I get to do all of it (and more!) without having to answer to you or anyone else. How awesome is that? Pretty freaking awesome!

And anything directed at me personally, changes nothing about how I feel or what I believe. Does not now. Never will.

8

@Christina... so facts don't matter, you're going to believe what you believe because you don't have to answer to anyone else. That sounds like our disaster in chief and his affection for alternative facts.

9

@8 Facts matter to me. Fighting with strangers on the internet has nothing to do with facts. In my experience, people who personally attack others on the internet are not interested in facts. You telling me to get a job as a cop from the get go has nothing to do with facts. The man shot and killed in Portland had his hands up when he was shot. Does that fact interest you? Does that change your comment directed at me? Nope.

You and the prior poster lecturing me instead of posting your own opinions are both clearly not interested in facts. I could post a litany of facts here and you would no doubt double down on your opinion. If facts mattered to you you would not be arguing with me. You would post a comment that focused on facts. My opinion is my opinion and your opinion, including everything you think you know about me (which is not remotely based on fact) is just that, YOUR opinion.

I have no idea what your opinion is based on and I don't really care. I leave that to you.

And you can continue to attack me personally and it will still not change how I feel about the situation. It won't change who I am, what I believe, or my original statement. Just like my comment has not changed your opinion, it's just incited you to further attack me. Why? What do you get out of it?

You've told me I know better than the cops and should get a job as a cop.
You've told me that I'm just like Donald Trump and cater in alternative facts.

Meanwhile, you don't know me. I am a complete stranger to you and yet you seem to firmly believe that by baiting me and berating me and ??? what's next? that I will change my opinion and see how "right" you are.

Seems like you'd have something better to do, but feel free to continue. As for me, I'm done here.

10

And Christina Rae once again pivots and refuses to answer Flavio's question. I've asked the same question: If a man is shooting at people at 3am, then the police show up and he shoots at them... what would you want to police officers to do?

There has yet to be one left-wing extremist who has answered this question.

They'll defend a known gang member who decides to leave his children at home at 3am to go have a gunfight downtown, but they won't answer a simple question.

And by the way, when right-winger Lavoy Finnicum decided it was a good idea to evade police and then reach for his handgun in his coat pocket and was shot by police, the right-wing had a hizzy and said that the police "murdered" him. I asked the same question to whacked-out right-wingers as I have to whacked-out left-wingers (looking at you Christina Rae) and neither extremists have answered... they just yell, pivot and deflect. SAD!

11

Excellent situational awareness and response by these two officers. Their quick reactions to stop an armed attempted murderer should be commended. It would have been preferable if Kimmons had survived to face trial, but that was the choice he made.

12

I wouldn't call this a protest as much as the last throes of a failed effort to turn Patrick Kimmons into a martyr.

He was not. He was a gang member who shot two people before trying to evade arrest.

13

@Christina Rae, if you think even highly trained cops have the accuracy to place their shots at a moving target precisely enough to disarm/disable but not kill the target, that's utter lunacy. Again, this was an active shooter who just shot two people and was running towards cops and near other people with a gun still in his hand. This type of situation is a textbook definition of justified force. And they provided him with medical attention, and no doubt would have preferred that he lived so he could face a trial.

The fact that he died isn't justice, that would have been if he had faced a trial and been convicted, but it also doesn't mean that what the officers did in this particular situation was wrong. The protocol for an active shooter in public HAS to be to take down that shooter. I care a hell of a lot more about the lives of all of the other citizens in the immediate area than I do the life of the guy who just shot two people and may have continued to shoot others.

14

How about the guys he shot? No cries for them? This guy just shot people and you want the cops to do what, give him a hug? Totally justified shooting.

16

@Crustina Rae, When there is an active shooter, police will come from every direction. They are at the highest level of alertness to such calls. They will have massive amounts of manpower as well as military grade weapons. What this accomplishes is a massive show of force as well as the highest level of officer safety. What does this do, more often then not it de-escalates the situation. This is why mass shooters are often brought in alive.

During routine police work, a police officer has to make split second life and death decisions, without tactical gear, manpower, or general information about that situation. This is often why police shootings with solo officers happen more.

Patrick Kimmons was lawfullyshot under Tennessee vs. Garner. Yes there was a rational belief that Patrick would shoot and possibly kill someone else. This means he can be legally shot in the back. As for amounts of shots, one vs nine does not matter. For an officer to fire his weapon once, there is only leathal force. One shot is intended to kill, as is nine. It does not matter. There is no way you shoot to disarm. Please look diagram of arteries and veins in the human body. You will see why you cannot shoot to wound. What if you shoot someone in the leg intending to wound and they bleed to death from a bullet cutting the femeral artery. Yep you guessed it lawsuits and protests everywhere.

Now onto white people getting food after a mass shooting. The station Dylan Roof was taking to does not offer food. Why is this important, Mr Roof if not fed could claim a violation of his civil right to no unnecessary cruel and unusual punishment. The officers by giving him food prevent him from using this as an excuse in court. It is also a tactic to build trust with a suspectvto get them to confess. Also please look at a map where he was arrested, the closest food was Burger King. You should applaud these officers for making sure that a vile piece of human excrement like Roof would never see the light of day again.

Please take time to understand the law, the human body, and depolicing. Yes depolicing. This is what happens when officers are affraid to perform their jobs due to perceived no win environments. What causes this feeling? Protesters who have no clue what they are talking about. Activists who protest on behalf of murdering gangbangers. Activists who threaten the lives of officers and their families. Activists who interfere with police work with cameras. Activists who block city streets preventing emergency vehicles from taking sick children to the hospital. Depolicing cause spike in crime In Low income areas. Murder rates sky rocket. See Baltimore pre and post riot. So please ask yourself who are you really harming.

Lastly sign the F up to the police department if you think you can do better!