Goddamnit, fluoride is used all over the fucking country and nobody's getting poisoned. At worst they get white spots on their teeth.

You know what else is poisonous? Fucking oxygen. It's a strong oxidizer, and leads to massive cellular damage from free radical formation. In fact, the majority of cancer can be traced back to oxidative damage!

So do all of us a favor and go hang yourself. You irrational assholes are killing this country.

I agree with Jamdox. Also, what do have against David Wu staffers? As I remember it, he went crazy and they quit. That sounds like the appropriate response to me.

We have fresh, clear mountain water, the city's been going on for years about how perfect it is, no need to filter it, etc. etc., and now the council wants to fluoridate it. The most commonly used chemical used in water fluoridation (OK, I'm relying on Wikipedia here) is fluorosilicic acid, "an inexpensive liquid by-product of phosphate fertilizer manufacture." Mmm-mmm. Let's have a referendum, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluorid…

How much tap water actually is used for drinking? What is the percent of all that water you want to put poison in that we will drink and prevent tooth decay? Most of that water will just go into the lawn, down the drain, and back into the environment, where maybe it will turn up in a phosphate mine again someday? It's like scorching the earth to kill ants. No need to do it. Brush your teeth folks. We don't need to pay even more for our good water.

It would appear all the chemtrail conspiracy theorists have moved on to fluoride. Where are all these mass fluoride poisonings you speak of? Please enlighten us.

It figures one the great advances of the 20th century will get trashed on by idiots.

My lawn is going to have the best smile on the block.

I find it interesting that the US has a higher DMFT (Decayed, Missing & Filled teeth) rate than most of the counties in Europe that do not implement compulsory fluoridation regiments.

Also, did they quit making fluoride toothpaste when I wasn't looking? Speak with any dentist and they will tell you that the most effective way to administer fluoride is topically, as in not ingested. Unless you walk around with a mouth full of fluoridated water all day long you are getting next to zero benefit from it.

Much the same as finding 'scientific research' that denies Global Warming, you can easily find flouride-denying critics - ignoring the fact that well over 95% of the Doctors and Dentists support it.
Read folks - not just some shit from a wacky BBC producer who ties flouridization to the Manhattan Project.

Just because something isn't proven to harm you doesn't mean it is a good idea. It can also be a bad idea because it is an unnecessary waste of money. Lots of ideas fall into this category. Fluoride is plentiful and widely available to combat tooth decay. It is in my toothpaste. I can get extra at the dentist, or buy it OTC. I fail to see why I need it to do my laundry or take a bath.

If you use toothpaste, you should be in pretty good shape, but if you don't use it, I don't believe that the fluoride in the water will save your teeth. Also, how much is this going to cost?

Do not let them corrupt the purity of our essence!!!

@LokNaar: The estimate that I've read is $5,000,000 to build the fluoridation plant and $575,000 per year to run it. Of course, no guarantee those numbers won't go higher. Think water bills might rise a bit?

I'm reading a lot of vague worries about "negative health effects," but that's not enough to get me concerned. Would someone mind getting a little more specific about what concerns you? How about finishing this sentence: "exposure to fluoridated directly causes [blank]." What is it? Brain death? Heart attacks? Scurvy? So far it sounds like it mostly causes hypochondria.

If they are going to be adding anything to our water for 'the greater good' they need to put something in it that makes everyone sterile. Then when you can afford it and have been shown competent enough to do so, you can go get a 'fertility prescription' and have yourself a baby. Granted this means the birth rates for those deemed 'intellectually and financially challenged' will plummet, I'm of the opinion that the poor and illiterate breed far more than they should already.

I may be joking but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea, however far-fetched.

@fvo: First, that's not a Reuter's article, it's a press release Reuters reprinted. A press release by an anti-fluoride group.

Second, the study they cite basically took a bunch of studies from China, where the exposures were probably extremely high and/or caused by exposure to seriously polluted water, and used it to conclude that there is "the possibility of an adverse effect of high fluoride exposure on children's neurodevelopment."

How much of an effect? A stunning -0.45 point drop in IQ! Which, BTW, only correlates with fluoride exposure. Again, since this is China we're talking about, the fluoride is probably just an indicator of exposure to seriously polluted water, which could have anything at all in it...

For all the energy the anti-fluoride folks have, you'd think they could at least use US data. But then they probably wouldn't get any effect.

And BTW, they use FLUORIDATED SALT in Europe, similar to the way we use iodized salt.

Flouride makes tap water taste shitty. I have lived in places where the water is flouridated, and there is a huge difference. One thing I really love about this city is the fact that our water tastes good.

Please educate yourselves people, don't you realize that "we the people" are continually lied to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZ15m-D_n8

Flouride is derived from the chemical wastes of the phosphate mining industry, and is actually consists of "Hexaflouriosilicic acid" and "Sodium Silicoflouride"a hazardous waste, both considered highly toxic by the EPA.
There are numerous articles and reports about where Flouride actually is coming from. What is put in the drinking water is not naturally occuring flouride, it is the above mentioned chemicals combined. Also it does not actually help protect your teeth, but rather contributes to the toxic load on our bodies.
Please educate yourselves, this is serious business folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZ15m-D_n8

Hi jamdox. Thank you for pointing out that Europeans use fluoridated salt instead of contaminating their water supplies.

I'm assuming they don't put salt in their big glass of water every time they drink one, or bath in big tubs of salt, or pour salt all over their plants and lawns everyday, or wash their dishes with salt, or dump a bunch in with their baby formula, or wash their cars with it, or brew their beer with it, or make their daily coffee or tea with it.

You're telling us they have wisely decided that each person has the right to choose how much, if any, to give himself. How novel.

No, I'm saying that, contrary to what commenters imply, Europeans indiscriminately eat fluoride with every meal, because it's harmless and significantly improves dental health.

But we don't have fluoridated salt in this country, so we should fluoridate our water.

We're talking about 0.7 PARTS PER MILLION added to the water. That is way down in "trace element" levels, like 0.5% of the amount of calcium in hard water. WOULD YOU DRENCH YOUR CAR IN BAKING SODA??? is basically your argument.

Because you are a psycho.

I was trying to recall where I've seen this debate before, and then it hit me:

http://pbfcomics.com/20/

I already have internalized that the government is trying to kill us all for our incompetence, in many ways. Look at the cell phone radiation, is already undermining brains and is killing the low alpha waves which promote rational independent tough. We are already doomed.

thought**

I guess I don't understand this central question: What's wrong with our water as it is?

Why invest the money to fix what isn't broken?

Under what authority should our government be mandating the types of medications in our water?

This just seems like a stupid waste of money. I'm just going to spend more of my money to purchase a Flouride filter after the city steals my money to put Flouride in the water.

@Fidelity Axiom, of all the arguments being made against fluoridation, I find yours to be the most compelling. Before we even get to the debate about the health effects of fluoridation, we should be focused on two other questions: (1) What, exactly, is the existing problem that needs to be fixed, and (2) is this solution the best available? So, does Portland have remarkably less healthy teeth than cities with fluoridated water? If the answer is "no," then there is no problem to fix, and therefore no justification for taking action. I don't know where to find the relevant statistics to answer that question. Does anyone else?

Thanks @Torgo - but I'm about to make it a bit more absurd: wouldn't it just be more effective for the City of Portland to ban high-sugar foods? If New York can ban soda in large quantities, why can't we just ban it like a plastic bag? Pepsi and Coke don't have any money here. Just ban sugar entirely, that's the real solution to healthy teeth. Or, maybe a "Sugar tax" or "sugar free zone" (ahem, "sugar exclusion zones") around schools.

Ban sugar, don’t mandate medication.

Read this one:

http://www.carrollconews.com/story/1872569…

FLOURIDATING THE WATER WON'T BRING BACK YOUR GOD DAMN HONEY!!!

Sometimes I think Portland is full of smart, educated people until someone proposes fluoridating the water and suddenly the tinfoil hats come out. I can't believe I live among you people.

Allow me to present a rebuttal that is on par with the scientific rigor of the anti-fluoride arguments:

Portland has a significantly higher incidence of ironic mustaches than other cities which fluoridate their water supplies. Fluoridate the water and decrease the number of ironic mustaches. The choice is clear.

Todd, do we read the stifling, crappy, imprecise article or the insane comments that come out at the end?

If Portland begins fluoridating its water, I will be back filling my cooler jugs at the water machines that employ reverse-osmosis or distillation to remove fluoride (instead of filling them at the tap as I currently do). Yes, my family drinks a LOT of water.

Years ago, I spent several months researching fluoride (in medical journals and other peer-reviewed sources, as part of a larger project) and eventually came to the conclusion that this is NOT a substance I want in my (or my childrens') drinking water.

It is just behind arsenic on toxicity scales, is a known neurotoxin, is linked to cancers of the reproductive system and bones, and to osteoporosis in older populations. White or brown spots on the teeth (mild fluorosis, which is distressingly common) is just the tip of the iceberg; the first visible sign of fluoride poisoning which affects multiple body systems.

Proponents point to its prevelence in our soil, air, and food supply as if this proved it was harmless. In fact, due to its widespread presence, studies have found that most people, esp. small children, drinking fluoridated water are getting far too MUCH fluoride exposure.

It's in most of the bottled juices and pops, the canned foods, in the toothpaste (toddlers have died from consuming the fluoride in a single candy-flavored tube, prompting the current warning labels), is present to varying degrees as an air pollutant (being a waste product of certain industries) and also occurs naturally in many foods, esp. spinach, black tea and crops grown in fluoride-rich soils.

True that the "dose is the poison", but in this case, that is exactly WHY we don't need more fluoride exposure! (and even arsenic is "safe" in small enough doses; that doesn't alter the fact that it IS a poison).

The touted positive effects on dental enamel are limited to those under the age of 7 or so, when it is forming, and TOPICAL application, not ingestion, is the most effective form of administration.

Its effects on the skeletal system of older people are not beneficial, but they would be dosed along with the kiddies. Those who consume more water (drinking, in juices, in soups, coffee or tea) would get higher doses....mass medication via the water supply is a ridiculously imprecise method of delivery.

I'm not a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Neither are the folks at Harvard who recently reviewed the literature on fluoridation and found, among other things, "a significant dose-response relation between fluoride level in serum and children’s IQ", adding re' the most recent study on IQ they reviewed, "This is the 24th study that has found this association, but this study is stronger than the rest.”

They noted that fluoride readily crosses the placenta, and, given its known neurotoxic effects on adults and animals, likely poses a significant risk to vulnerable fetal brains as well as to children, and pointed to the need for more study into the matter.

Commented one of the authors:
"“Fluoride seems to fit in with lead, mercury, and other poisons that cause chemical brain drain,” noted senior study author Philippe Grandjean, a professor of environmental health at Harvard. “The effect of each toxicant may seem small, but the combined damage on a population scale can be serious, especially because the brain power of the next generation is crucial to all of us.”

(Study published July 20, 2012 in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives of the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences)'

If parents want their children to receive fluoride, it is easily accomplished with fluoridated products and/or supplements (such as the tablets given out to school children with parental consent). The city could, for FAR less money than fluoridating the entire water supply, distribute free fluoride supplements to everyone who wanted them.


Don't be so quick to characterize those who oppose fluoridation as ignorant or delusional. I'm an educated, skeptical, critical thinker whose views on this issue came about through extensive research in scientific sources.

P.S. anecdotally, my kids (now 20 and 12) grew up drinking non-fluoridated Portland water and using non-fluoride toothpastes and no fluoride supplements.

Their teeth are excellent, with a total of maybe 3 or 4 small carries between them to date.

I grew up drinking fluoridated Texas tap water and using fluoride toothpaste and had a mouth full of fillings by my teen years.

Go figure.

BAN SUGAR.

See, I am not down with BANNING much of anything (fluoride OR sugar). Just don't dump sugar in my DRINKING WATER...give me a CHOICE wrt consuming it everytime I have to hydrate myself. Thanks.