Comments

2

@1 Fuck you. Women don't exist to please anyone not even old men and frankly some of us are sick and fucking tired of being told how to behave by men.

OP, here's an artist who has a great art movement about stopping telling women to smile.
http://stoptellingwomentosmile.com/

3

What I get out of your comment, @1, is that you're a mansplainer who blames victims when they call out people you seem to identify with. I believe this makes you a misogynist piece of shit.

5

@4, it is not a woman's responsibility to explain and teach men how to be respectful of boundaries and not impose their sexist expectations. You missed a great opportunity to be an advocate for women, rather than an apologist for clueless men.

7

Well, @6, given that OP's stated desire was to have the person behind her in line stop pressing sexist demands on her, it indisputably got the job done. It's you who mention, "...the expectation that this guy walked away from that encounter realizing his mistake," not her. And I daresay this guy very much DOES realize his mistake, regardless of whether it will change his behavior. She bears no responsibility whatsoever for what uninvolved passersby happen to think about the situation.

Look, I'm sure you're a really cool person, who just wants to suggest a kinder, gentler way for us all to get along, but women have suffered generations (centuries? millennia?) of these kinds of gender-based, performative expectations from men. IT'S NOT FUCKING HARMLESS! It's time EVERYONE stop expecting women to:
1. Just hold on until the old farts die out before this stuff stops.
2. Let it slide because the old farts don't know any better and you don't want them to feel temporarily uncomfortable or inconvenienced.

9

Pablo Picasso was never called an asshole.

10

Meh. She needed to lash out at someone because she couldn't handle the sadness of losing a friend she hasn't talked to in years and some old guy gave her the perfect excuse to do so. He was a moron, he should know better, she told him so, he's not going to change his world view, she probably treated other people like shit that day, case closed.

11

Also, perhaps funnier is the comments section. #1, the guy asked her a question - "why don't you smile." That is not necessarily the same thing as telling a person to smile. And #2, she didn't call him an asshole, she called him a moron. If you're all going to debate this like it's the exemplar of systemic sexism, at least get the story straight.

14

I understand why this IA is pissed off. However one part I have trouble with (I'm sure people will be upset when they read this) -- if you are showing cleavage, you need to get over it when men look at it. Anything you put out in public, someone will look at it. If it bothers you, then cover it up.

15

@14 yes because women should wear burkas at all times because men are not able to control their behavior. big supporter of sharia law, huh? please. men sexualized breasts. they exist to feed babies. women are not required to dress in any way to prevent men from being leering, lecherous, assholes, whatever their age. NOPE.

16

I definitely think she could have said something like "someone close to me just died and I don't feel like talking" and that would have been the most effective way to shut him down and reconsider using the grocery line for his socialization needs. That said, she had every right to lash out at him for not taking the hint and minding his own business.

But also I have to agree with 14 here, men will never learn to stop looking when a woman shows her cleavage, it's just not going to happen. If you don't like the attention unfortunately you have to cover up your cleavage. I'm not saying it's right but we are programmed genetically and socially to basically lose our shit when we see part of a breast. Those of us dogs who are housebroken have learned to hide it, but I guarantee you the minute you look away we are checking it out.

18

There are two reasons a person chooses to show cleavage: so they can feel attractive (based on the interpretation/socialization that showing cleavage equates attractiveness), and to attract attention. The person must interpret showing cleavage as aesthetically pleasing, otherwise they would not purchase and wear a garment that shows it. This argument focuses on women not editing themselves and men not sexualizing them, but the choice to show cleavage is inherently sexual and it's 100% personal choice. The only thing a woman cannot control is the "who," that is who it is that notices. I'd estimate the majority of cases where women get pissed off about this take place in public places and with men they find unattractive. Such as this case, where she took the time to demean the personal appearance of the man, which adds nothing to the content of her gripe. It's indicative of the mentality: "I'm going to show my cleavage because it makes me feel sexy/attractive, but I don't want to appear sexy/attractive to ugly old men." You can't have it all ways. Choose to show it, people are going to notice it. Not just men, but women alike. Psychologists say on average a person take 3 to 5 seconds to judge another. The first things they look at are eyes/facial features, shoes, hands/finger nails/finger accessories, and body type (including body features like curves, breasts, muscles, etc.). It's a natural process and you're a lying fool if you won't admit that you glance at people in public, even if not attempting to sexualize them.

19

15: This is not about sharia law. Why would you show cleavage if you didn't want people to look at it? I happen to be a gay man, so I don't give a shit about anyone's cleavage. But guess what? If you have a tight dress and a nice butt, when you turn around the men are going to focus on it without you knowing. Obviously it's not OK for men to touch you without premission, or make lewd comments as you pass on the street, but note that they ARE undressing you with their eyes, and there is nothing you can do about it. Some women (and many gay men) enjoy people looking them over as it makes them feel attractive and sexy. But for those who can't deal with this kind of attention, there are other ways to dress.

20

I'm still trying to figure out why the balloons were interesting.

21

Why would a woman possibly show cleavage when she doesn't want men to look at said cleavage? Because it gets hot, idiots.

Keep your creepy eyes to yourself.

22

"I dress in a revealing manner because it's hot."

I am a male feminist in every sense of the word, but this argument is completely delusional and it pisses me off a little more every time I hear it. Every woman knows when she's being sexy and when she's being practical. You can do both but as the majority of commenters here have pointed out you will have to deal with the consequences. This is why you won't see me walking around in a speedo with a massive moose knuckle saying "how about this heat?"

I am in no way a Puritan but sexual energy is the strongest force on the planet and we all have a obligation to use it responsibly. At least the grown ups do.

PS while this topic had very little to do with the original rant, I think it's an important conversation to have. I also want to point out that I agree with the IA that the old man should have taken the hint and fucked off.

24

@27 bullshit. when it's hot out and a woman wears a tank top it is because it is FUCKING HOT OUTSIDE. people seriously need to wrap their minds around the FACT that women's bodies DO NOT EXIST FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO LOOK AT, CRITIQUE, TOUCH, LUST AFTER OR ANYTHING ELSE. men have the luxury of walking around looking any way they please without constantly being ogled or criticized. seriously, look in the mirror and own your fucking misogyny.

25

https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/we-belong-to-ourselves-on-male-entitlement-and-womens-right-to-say-no/

http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/

Women, no matter what they do, are vilified and violated by men in every possible instance, for every possible reason. All because men believe they have a right to our bodies no matter what.

And men who commit sexual violence do it to females of all ages. Infants are raped and murdered by men all of the time. INFANTS. Elderly women, ugly women, fat women, beautiful women, thin women, sick women, disabled women, naked women, women covered head to toe, women in comas in nursing homes, mentally ill women, homeless women, toddler girls, pre-teens, teenagers, college students, women who are drug addicts, women who are executives, women of every age, every walk of life, in any and every kind of outfit and scenario are raped by men EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. All of the men justifying shitty male behavior because women have bodies and wear clothes really need to get a clue and realize how fucked up you are, how wrong your thinking is, how offensive and revolting your words, thoughts, and actions are. Men REALLY NEED TO TRULY, DEEPLY, AND THOROUGHLY COMPREHEND THAT YOUR PENISES AND YOUR SEXUAL NEEDS ARE YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM AND THE WOMEN OF THE WORLD DO NOT EXIST FOR YOU OR YOUR PENISES. FFS, WHY DOES THIS HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED?!?!

27

Typo, should have been @22 AND every other man posting on here mansplaining how men are going to ogle women no matter what and how and why women dress they do because of course women need all of this explained to them because they are too stupid to understand how men are just totally fucking incapable of understanding the most basic of things like WOMEN HAVE BODIED AND WOMEN WEAR CLOTHES AND NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEN.

28

oh and I am tired (typos/can't edit blah blah blah) now and just thoroughly sick of this bullshit.

i am disabled and i have to see doctors all the time i have big breasts. it does not matter what i wear one doctor i have stares at my breasts every time. i wear a minimizer bra (which makes me feel like i am being squeezed to death), men's t-shirts, hoodies, tons of layers, all the clothing i can wear to this appointment and the guy still stares at my breasts.

my having breasts is solely due to my being born female.
doctor starting at my breasts is him being incapable of managing his behavior.
the problem is HIS, not MINE. even if i chose to wear a tank top and no bra to the appointment, STILL HIS BEHAVIORAL PROBLEM.

so sick of men and their pretend inability to control their behavior. if men are so incapable of behaving decently, perhaps they should be neutered and sequestered at birth for the safety of others.

29

I want propose a parallel to Godwin's Law ("As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1") that says, "As an online discussion of a woman's objection to sexist behavior grows longer, the probability of a discussion of what she was wearing approaches 1."

30

CR and HF you both completely missed the part where I said I know it's not right it's just the way things are. I do not objectify women but I am perfectly aware that most men do. I abhor sexual violence and I've never said a victim is to blame for the way she dressed. But you live in a world of sexual violence and the sexual power you wield cannot be selective when you're in public. I say this for your own safety not because I feel the need to be right.

34

Hello Felicia I appreciate the time and thought you are putting into your responses. You and I have butted heads before but I do respect your perspective. It would be hard, without speaking face to face, for you to understand that I am not the typical "women need protection", "exist to meet men's approval" or "should be expected to dress a certain way" kind of guy. To fully express the difference in nuance of what I was trying to say would take more time and energy than I have, and anyway I know that no words I could write here will change how you feel about me. But if you could talk to the hundreds of close female friends I have they would tell you that I am not a man splaining wannabe feminist. (And no, that is not me using the lame "I have black friends" bulshit.)

Something tells me that you and I would actually get along IRL. We both have strong opinions that don't always meet eye-to-eye but are both capable of listening to another person with a sincere desire to communicate, and also a strong will to be heard and understood. I like that you are confident in defending your personal space, most of my friends are empowered females that could kick most dudes asses. Truce?

35

PS while I stand by my statement that we ALL should be more responsible with the sexual energy that we wield, I also believe that if a woman has mastered self defense and wants to kick the shit out of any douchebag that violates her space, I'll be the first one cheering you on.


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