Mental health is a tough issue. I'm no expert but clearly, neither are you. If you see a person collapsed in the street, do you step over them and walk on because you don't want to violate their civil rights? If so, you are the asshole.

Most people, stop, help, call 911 and get medical care for the person. Why is that different for a mental illness? Why do you ignore that kind of pain and suffering?

Look around. So many are completely unable to take care of their basic needs. We should be getting them off the streets and help. I'm sure the type of help will vary but right now they are dying. Blathering about civil rights to a dying individual makes no sense.

@PSmith55
“Mental health is a tough issue. I'm no expert but clearly, neither are you. If you see a person collapsed in the street, do you step over them and walk on because you don't want to violate their civil rights? If so, you are the asshole.” 🙄 Really? Very very weak argument there, hun and doesn’t track.

I think what OP was pointing out, is that the civil commitment isn’t something that just happens because someone is sick. Why? Because of the civil rights violations of many people thrown into institutions of the past: forced lobotomies, sterilizations, overdoses of insulin for shock, ECT…all found to be inhumane and also we’re civil rights violations. Things were easier back in the day. Oh you’re someone PSmith thinks need to be hospitalized (pretend it’s 1971) because they’re mentally ill? Sure. It can happen. Need crazy money disability? Sure thing. It was easier 40 years ago and beyond to get disability. This was of course way back when. Due to the very nature of the psychiatric hospitals and their cruelty and use as storage units for the mentally ill, do you even think there was any progress for their well being? Not really. OP is correct that you did say to hospitalize mentally ill homeless. That was your only answer to it. No community based suggestion, no clinical suggestion, no respite care or anything like a group home setting. You said hospitalization. Period. Locking them up in a padded room makes YOU feel better and safer, under the guise of their “dying and so needing help”. That’s kind of what it sounds like, shades of what Sam Adams suggested to warehouse house less people. You can backtrack and act like you are being compassionate in idea, but your original comment was very stigmatizing. Lock up the criminals and mentally ill, and only those who are acceptable and lacking track marks or a psychiatric diagnosis can be housed. I also hate (not) to inform you that there are many severely mentally disabled people who haven’t burned down their homes like you claimed it would happen. I hope it doesn’t make you sick and neurotic, that they’re doing just fine. So yes, you stigmatized and generalized a section of humanity under a faux word vomit of “care” and I agree with OP: you’re an asshole.

We don’t stigmatize people with Cancer, MS, Cystic Fibrosis, Huntington’s Disease, or missing 3 toes, but psychiatric disorders are. It’s even easier when that person is houseless and in crisis. You don’t want to see it because you’re compassionate and caring, you don’t want to see it because it gets in the way of you enjoying what life you have. So stepping over a collapsed person and walking on has nothing to do with a civil rights violation, obviously you lack understanding and awareness.

In 2022, in Portland, a person who is experiencing crisis (and there are plenty who aren’t homeless as well, as it afflicts anyone and doesn’t discriminate) can languish in an ER for sprays and even weeks, because there are barely any beds available in any of the hospitals here, and Unity Hospital which is a behavioral health hospital, well it’s shades of history repeating itself, because ever since it’s opening, it has been plagued by a plethora of issues and some of them are civil rights issues as well. It’s all over the news. Other than the 2 hospitals run by Providence who have units, (Cedar Hills doesn’t take Medicare or Medicaid) Unity is it. Even then? It’s a band-aid and they’re not kept very long. 2 weeks maximum. Give them meds and send them back to their homes, their tents, their doorways. That is what happens, and that is Oregon. The last on a list of 50 states in availability of help and care for mental health. That is why the “pain and suffering” being (as you said) “ignored” is an issue right now. It’s sucks to be homeless and it sucks to be mentally ill, especially in Oregon.

Also in 2022, for a person to be admitted to a State Hospital, that is a civil commitment and can only be done by the courts. Without a shadow of a doubt, it is a very fuzzy and very gray area for a person to even be committed, because even if you believe you’re Anastasia Romanov, you don’t lose your civil rights and if isn’t easy to get into OSH. If it was that easy at the moment I type this, every single bed in the 2 State Hospitals would be filled, and those campuses are huge.

At your core, I do not believe (truly) that you are an asshole. But I do believe (and maybe OP might as well) that you have a very fractured vision of what is compassionate for people with mental illness as to care. The patron Saint to the mentally ill was a woman from Seattle named Frances Farmer, an actress. Maybe you’re old enough or know of Nirvana saying she’d have her revenge on Seattle. She was locked up in an asylum, and she wasn’t sick. She was a headstrong woman (look her up, her story is fascinating) who refused to bend to the rules of men (she wasn’t lobotomized at all like legend says, no records exist) and once said “I never believed I was crazy, but if you put someone in a cage and treat them like an animal, you are apt to behave as one.”

Just be kinder, and remember just how simple it is to generalizing and stigmatize people. Like I said, at your core and I’ve read your comments for a long time now, I don’t truly believe you’re a bad person. Just think, and try not to be a dick about other humans, ok?

It requires effort and empathy, and people do do or have a lot of it. We have to get uncomfortable and come out of our comfort zones if anything is going to change.

2
Heartfelt and well said. However, I still think, while you mean well and make some valid points, there comes a time when a plan of action is needed. I don't claim to have all the answers but will say what we do now isn't effective. Is this about me and my comfort.? No.

It really isn't. Do I think a person wondering the street covered in their own feces, screaming at others committing crimes to support a drug habit they need to get through the day would be better off in a hospital getting treatment? Yes I do. Do I support my tax dollars going to help pay for it? Yes I do.

I'm not talking about people down on their luck, I'm talking about those who are out of their minds and need intervention before they hurt themselves (more) or others. If that is cruel, then God help us all.

Oh of course! We DO need a plan of action. BUT for mental health care to work, the system needs to be overhauled. But you have to look at mental health treatment in hospitals even now and historically to see just what happens. And as I said, we are last in the nation. Hawaii ranks first according to that website that OP posted as for numbers. Lord, could you imagine getting care for your mental health in a place not only beautiful but also is doing something that works? Something they’re doing there is right by the mentally ill, and works. They’re a small island! We have more resources here in the mainland, yet we are failing here in Oregon.

Meth for instance, creates a chemically induced psychosis as it is, not just from the drugs alone. If a person who isn’t using, and say has a severe sleeping disorder like insomnia, even within 24 hours (which I’m sure all of us at some point, be it a flight to another country for example or something…even 24 hours without sleep, we feel off!) they begin physically and mentally to have a reaction to it. The longer you lack sleep, the more chances there are that you will have issues beginning to resemble a psychosis. Add whatever the hell is in meth these days or even Adderall, and that of course is a recipe for mental psychosis.

Now. While I see your point about hospitalization and helping those who are sick, a plan of action isn’t going to work when the system in place is severely fractured. Again, you MUST take into consideration how broken it is here in Oregon FOR those services. DEMAND that your tax dollars be used to help others in a system OVERHAULED that works. But the mental health system is broken as it is, yet something is working in Hawaii. If we send those needing the help so dearly into a system that is so severely fractured like we are in Oregon, how does that help? How does that provide results? How does that prevent or help anything? It doesn’t. It’s not an issue that one can say “it’s better than nothing”, and expect success. It’s not an issue like cooking where you can throw in all these ingredients and hope your soufflé rises to perfection. The ingredients and tools must be there for it to work and the steps known to make that puppy rise, must be followed.

Demand the mental health system here in Oregon changes. Demand that what works elsewhere be implemented here. Then (with hope) those who are either in a hospital or community setting, once their mental health issues are addressed successfully, then once they can think clearly (and mental illness is broad, just look at the DSM and how thick it is) then they can address their addiction. Demand change and realize it’s not so cut and dry when addressing mentally ill homeless. The system that should help them MUST be successfully overhauled for it to be effective.

Give them hope. When someone feels hopeless and is shit on by other human beings, how in the hell can you expect them to feel empowered and not give up? They say we need love, but we need more than that for something to work.

Over hauling the system. Thats a nice way of saying "we cant do anything" because things are not "well" in the system. Check out the hell they are in on the street. Warm, dry and the right meds goes along way.

Don't even start with the drug addicts. So many just ruin their lives with that shit.

“Over hauling the system. Thats a nice way of saying "we cant do anything" because things are not "well" in the system. Check out the hell they are in on the street. Warm, dry and the right meds goes along way.”

Ok here we go.

You’re blind if you think for mental illness, that medication is just the answer. If you’re homeless and you get the TWO WEEK MAXIMUM of being in a hospital ward at Providence, and then you’re discharged back onto the streets, you do realize that just because you’ve been given medication and they wave goodbye, that because of lack of a place to go, doesn’t mean you’re going to adhere to taking those medications when finding safety and food is your priority. What about aftercare? What about therapy? Medicine in mental health isn’t a cure all when you’re not addressing the issues you have of mental illness.

Do a little research on just how successful homeless people with HIV are doing, in adhering to retroviral medications that can bring their tcells up and their viral loads to undetectable levels. It’s not easy for them at all. How the hell do you expect someone to get well when they have no stability? Throwing someone back into the streets with a script with no follow up care (which here in Portland is overwhelmed and threadbare as it is)

Not saying we can’t do anything. But in reality in Oregon, there isn’t much that can be done. You’re going around in circles and if I have to start listing statistics of studies and data, I can easily do so as that information is available. Not that if would really do much good, because you’d rather just spout off your opinion, which under Aristotle’s pathos, ethos and logos, has no weight to support it. Come at me with real data and numbers, and research and then let me know just what authority you have in the solution that isn’t from an emotion, versus tactful and proven data. I am more than willing to meet you on that level, as this is a very civil discussion. I have been an HIV activist since the 80’s and I’ve seen a lot and studied mental illness and criminal justice. Please, I’m more than willing to keep this discussion going with you. I’d even invite you to coffee or brunch and have you meet people in the community who have been there. I have a feeling you’re willing to learn and see through your frustrations.

Just admit you’d rather lock someone up under the guise of compassion, than really address what that individual’s problems are and to find a solution. Yes the system needs to be working fine help those no matter what their income level is, to work successfully. Warehousing the mentally I’ll is basically criminalizing them, and that isn’t compassion or humane. And to help the mentally ill homeless, something needs to be successful in place for a successful outcome.

I’m very thankful to be having this discussion with you, honestly.

“Don't even start with the drug addicts. So many just ruin their lives with that shit.”

Yes because SO many people who are addicts, that’s exactly what they dreamt about when they were little. There seems to be a very interesting trait of yours in addressing people you don’t even try or attempt to understand, so I’d ask you to look up “selective empathy” as a character trait and see if that’s where we are at?

You seem to have a very limited understanding of people and some of their problems. I’d love to take you to task as you seem to not only have all the answers, but are pretty close to perfect in some respect. Please, enlighten us all on how you’ve managed to never make mistakes and lead a life of perfection without reproach or having done anything that has never caused a chain reaction and hurt other people. I’m fascinated. Maybe you’ll inspire and motivate others, you think?

Less limited than you might think. As I have stated I don't have all the answers. But your willingness to do nothing isn't helpful either. When people are sick, you help them. Some sick people make it, some don't. Just a fact of life. We still need to do our best.

Drug addiction is another complex issue and I have empathy for it but in the end personal responsibility is a big part of recovery. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. We all make them, including me. The trick is to learn from mistakes. No judgment, just learn from them.

Be as snarky as you want, I'm not going to bite. :)

Never said I was unwilling to help, and my work in AIDS activism/non-profit work and the system here in Oregon, Seattle and San Francisco can attest to that. So I have been very willing to help and I have been exposed to and seen what is broken and what has worked as well and what hasn’t. Doing so, it’s been my life’s work when you’ve buried an entire generation with a disease that many once said “it’s killing all the right people.” I think when you have been on the forefront of a time like that and spent well over a decade before those afflicted could live thanks to science. I’m very willing to help and proud of the work I’ve done in advocacy. So point out where I said I wasn’t willing to do anything because I could easily prove I have, can you? No. You cannot. Again, your “solution” and ideas have no weight, and data/research/studies can easily disprove an opinion, because that’s all it is. It’s not a fact, it’s an opinion that has nothing to back it up. I haven’t been afraid to get my hands dirty, volunteer in a soup kitchen, volunteer at a needle exchange, provide resources to shelter and what threadbare mental health options are available that doesn’t criminalize someone. I’ve seen what has worked and what doesn’t work. You’re very good at deflecting, I’ll give you that. And an invite to brunch is still open, anytime. Snark or not. But seriously, quit pretending your compassion is just that. You’d rather criminalize than really help. That’s pretty sad.

“No judgement” you say. But that’s all you’ve done, sweets.

And that is your opinion and you are entitled. But please stop thinking you have a monopoly on solutions or helping people. As far as judgment goes, you are pretty judgmental yourself. I'm OK with it, cause we all have our opinions. Ours just differ. I'm sure you are a fine person, with a bleeding heart but no doubt with good intentions. Keep up the good work and hopefully the next Governor and Mayor can lead the way to progress.
Missed the invite to Bruch but thank you for the offer. Will decline but do wish you the best.