Politics May 1, 2013 at 4:00 am

...And Why They're Still Wrong

Comments

204
This is what I don't understand: The antis argue that fluoride accumulates in the body and is toxic at any level and that it takes really expensive filters to totally remove it, filters that poor people can't afford, but then they argue that poor children can always get fluoride tablets/treatment at school.
205
@Erik Littlefeather: What don't you understand? People are saying that they don't like fluoride, don't want it in their systems, but if other people feel differently that, yes, there is a free and voluntary program in schools "for the children".
206
Hi, I would like to see the media talk more about the SEVERE dental decay that has been happening to children. My child had to undergo surgery, under general anesthesia, because his teeth were so bad. We are not low income, uneducated, crappy parents as some would believe. He had seven crowns placed and it cost us $3,000 after insurance. I'm hardly the first parent this has happened to - a friend of mine had a child that also had to undergo a similar procedure. This isn't just "cavities" this is a huge problem. And contrary to what some may think, my son has a fairly decent diet - he's never had soda in his life, had juice very few times (like under 10) and his sugar intake low. I think you guys would do a great deal of service to the community to discuss just how extensive the problem really is.
207
A buddy of mine has a lady friend who is severely allergic to fluoride. Now, she'll have to shower with the shit all over herself.
208
Anyone who thinks that employees of the Portland Mercury are monitoring these comments for pearls of wisdom is a goddamned idiot. Also, everyone in these comments is a goddamned idiot.
209
The Mercury did get at least 10 or so new registered commenters from this! Way to go fluoride.
210
What is the white guilt thing I don't even
211
I wish I had the certitude of the Portland Mercury regarding flouride. Do we know what is causing the number of cancer cases, the number of people with multiple chemical sensitivies, obesity, Alzheimer's? I don't, but apparently you know that chemicals play no part. Do tell us in the next issue what is causing all of the epidemic's in health.
213
Clearly, Seth, they haven't blogged about the arsenic test yet because they don't have as much free time as you do to type up verbose essays or cite flawed studies.

I mean, the Harvard study? The one predominantly conducted in China where fluoridated drinking water ISN'T ubiquitous? The one that mentions a "possibility" of an effect -- but did not actually conclude that there is an effect?

Huh.

Must really chap your ass that those "misinformed journalists" are smarter than you are...

Oh! Silly me.

The Mercury probably hasn't blogged about the arsenic tests because the Oregonian is already tearing CWP's work down. Perhaps you should run over there and dazzle them with your insight and wit?
214
IT'S FOR DA CHILDRENZZZ!!!11
215
I wish I had faith in snake oil vital wellness coaching. (IS THAT ADVERTISING I SEE)
216
Why isn't anyone thinking of the vagina dentata
217
Anyone have the full story about Evyn Mitchell showing up to a Clean Water Oregon meeting drunk as fuck and bragging about how her Bachelors in Marketing makes her so much smarter than everyone there with their silly medical PhDs? Sounded hilarious, just wondering if anyone else heard about it or had more details.
218
Anyone have the full story of me showing up to your butt drunk as fuck?
219
I would simply like to know who stands to profit monetarily from this. I cannot seem to find any information about which company or companies the city is considering signing contracts with for the purchase of the fluoridation chemical(s). Anyone have any clue? I think this is a very important piece of information that is being left out of the discussion.
220
To "disastronaut" who said:

"How about the argument that the government should not force the involuntary ingestion of ANY drugs, regardless of their health benefit?"

The answer, you moron, is that you don't face "involuntary ingestion" of water. The market, which I assume is your panacea, provides you with an alternative. You can drink un-fluoridated water that you pay for. If, on the other hand, you drink the water that the CITY provides and pumps to your taps, you assume an implied contract. You accept the cities management of that water.

God what an idiot.
221
@Roger: Check again. I didn't say that, dipshit.
222
How embarrassing.
223
@Roger - I plan to use the free market if this doesn't pass - by filling up jugs with Vancouver tap water and bringing it over the border to drink. I don't want to drink this unwholesome Portland water just to satisfy the tinfoil-hat crowd.

And I would also suggest Googling the water quality reports for cities with fluoridated water, such as Seattle, Kansas City, Denver, Pittsburgh, and Milwaukee - none show elevated levels of arsenic, and only Denver's shows elevated lead levels (caused by leaching from pipes).

Clean Water Portland is using scare tactics about "chemicals" and "arsenic and lead" to scare people away from an inexpensive public health solution to tooth decay.
224
I lived in Montgomery Co., Maryland where I grew up in 50s & 60s with one of the first fluoridated water systems. My parents both had a terrible time with cavities. I am 63. No cavities. Bones and other organs so far just fine. Just saying.
225
Real statistics on how Mult. Co. cavity rates are higher per capita than similar-sized cities who fluoridate would be helpful. This article's bias is not obscured in any manner. After all, they do have their advertisers to feed don't they?
226
Channel 8 just reported that a chemical analysis was done on Philomath's "Flouridation Chemicals" (the same chemicals that are going to be used in Portland) and the results show disturbingly high levels of Arsenic, Aluminum, Chromium, and Selenium, as well as concerning levels of lead, cadmium, and mercury. I just can't believe that people don't realize (or maybe just don't care)-YOU WILL BE DRINKING THIS STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
227
Christina - please compare the levels of the elements you mention to EPA standards, or else you're just a scare-mongering conspiracy theorist.
228
I'm sure what I'm about to say has been said idk at least 10 times out of 224 proceeding comments. Fluoride does occur at trace levels in our environment but there is sound scientific evidence showing that our local ecology would not like the amount of fluoride added to our water supply by treated wastewater discharge, which does not remove fluoride. The reason there is not a lot of science to back up the few studies that exist is because no one is researching it. Allowing some people who are willing and able to pony up the money to do a long term risk assessment study can put this bit to rest, but until the science actually backs up the claim that fluoride doesn't negatively affect our local ecology, this gets a no vote from me. I believe the person who wrote this article would do themselves a service by researching this issue a bit farther than, "Fluoride naturally occurs in our water, so you're wrong, and we dump lye in our water so it's fine." That's adapting a dangerous rationale in my opinion, and seems like lazy reporting by you guys. I still believe this is an issue that was largely ignored by both sides of the debate.
229
Communities Which Have Rejected Fluoridation Since 1990
http://www.fluoridealert.org/content/commu…

Communities that Have Rejected Fluoridation Since 2010
http://www.fluoridealert.org/content/commu…
231
The second comment on this thread nailed it, for me.
232
It's funny how the article portrays the vote no campaign as "anti-fluoride". Will people that crusade against rape be classified as "anti-sex"? I'm sure most no voters brush their teeth with fluoride toothpaste. They just don't want their water supply polluted.
233
having a niece and nephew who suffer from fluorosis, i can tell you this is not a make believe issue and the cause wasn't from parental neglect. it was due to a municipality over-fluoridating the public water. it is ugly and degrades teeth and bones. while these issues might be minute, they do predicate concern.
234
Wow! Glad to see so many people educated about the dangers of Fluoride. I helped get signatures last year for Clean Water Portland. Only idiots are dumb enough to believe the liberal pussy lies and biased propaganda of corporate fascist New World Order America. I'd say more, but fellow patriots of mine above already have LOL. Thanks guys keep it up! And just remember everytime you pick up a Portland Mercury you are reading pussy liberal biased neo Nazi propaganda.
235
I wonder if the same people who bitch and moan about the fluoride in Portland's water supply worried about the contents of the ink in their tattoos?
236
Come on people, let's call it what it is.
Has anyone here actually read a mercury piece (if you can even call it that) before this? Because I sure haven't. Stop encouraging these idiots and their publicity stunts. Remember, they HAD to - they need readers. Journalism is dead.
237
I lost some respect for your dumb ass, smart ass paper after reading this really shitty article. I hope you DID receive some money from a corporate douche association... You do not help children's teeth this way. Adding chemicals to a municipal water supply has nothing to do with children's dental health. Vote NO NO NO. When I lite camp fires this summer, I will take pleasure in using a Mercury and not Nickel Ads, or the WW, or Exotic. If they do start adding these chemicals I will feel good about tossing water balloons on you fools this winter too. Mercury Staff can go get fucked.
238
@Yinzer V-"scare-mongering conspiracy theorist"? Wow, that is really offensive. I will say, however, that you are smart for being one of HKHP's paid thugs. Just remember that others are too. I have a Master of Arts in Teaching, and a Bachelor of Arts in English, as well as being a CANCER SURVIVOR and a very happy artist mommy. Let's play nice, ok? However, since you asked, here is a metal by metal comparison of the EPA limits vs. what was discovered in Philomath's "Fluoridation Chemicals" last month. And just for everyone's reading pleasure, any adverse health effects from exceeding these limits, straight from the EPA's own website! (And yes, indeed I do have a copy of the report in my hand. How lovely!!!)

ARSENIC (Skin damage or problems with circulatory systems, and may have increased risk of getting cancer)
EPA Limit 0.010 mg/L
Philomath 46.5 mg/L

ALUMINUM (No side effects)
EPA Limit .05-.2 mg/L
Philomath 6.93 mg/L

MERCURY (Kidney damage)
EPA Limit .002 mg/L
Philomath .004 mg/L

LEAD (Infants and children: Delays in physical or mental development; children could show slight deficits in attention span and learning abilities
Adults: Kidney problems; high blood pressure)
EPA Limit ZERO
Philomath .002

CHROMIUM (Allergic dermatitis)
EPA Limit .1 mg/L
Philomath 1.55 mg/L

SELENIUM (Hair or fingernail loss; numbness in fingers or toes; circulatory problems)
EPA Limit .05 mg/L
Philomath .4 mg/L

CADMIUM (Kidney damage)
EPA Limit .005 mg/L
Philomath .008

And just for fun, these are the side effects of exceeding the EPA limit for Flouride, which is 4 mg/L: Bone disease (pain and tenderness of the bones); Children may get mottled teeth.
239
steve h: http://cof-cof.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/… is the actual study I'm referring to.

Total fluoride discharges will be similar to the plant in 1982 when mass die-offs were detected before they had to reduce discharges. This is just one life form harmed at low concentrations. Certainly others would be as well.
240
steve h: also, be sure to check out some history of the fish/fluoride debate: http://www.nofluoride.com/Salmon.cfm
241
As a physician, a native of a city that fluoridated it's water, and a member of thebCareOregon board, I need to debunk some of these STUPID comments.. The most vunerable of our children are missing school because of tooth decay. When I see patients bring their 1 year old in with soda or juice drinks in the bottle, I talk to them about theirs kids teeth. A lot of people do not know better. Some if it is cultural. For instance, in the Black community, my community, babies as young as 3-4months are started on juice. Most of the physicians in Portland, who are white, do not know that. Cultural incompetence keeps them from better informing the parents. Fluoride would help these babies.
Let me put it to you like this. Better education now, means someone is less likely to rob Your house later. If the kid is missing weeks worth of school due to dental pain now, where are they going to be financially in ten years?
242
At Dr. Selina: Treating the problem you describe with fluoride in the water is like prescribing caffeine in the water for habitual drunks. What we need to do instead is stop the problem at its source - advise them to stop giving their kids juice and soda. And if you don't, no amount of fluoride is going to fix the problem.
243
@Lewcifer Using rape as a simile to fluoride is uh, yeah.
244
@Christina - you seriously are comparing a supposed sample of the undiluted fluoridation supplements with EPA standards for drinking water? (Only enough will be added to increase the fluoride content to 0.7 ppm, while the undiluted substance is ~40% H2SiF6 and fluoride ions.)

Just typical Clean Water Portland deception. 1.) That study should be made public, so the chain of custody and actual report can be studied; Clean Water Portland has a history of selective quoting of studies (especially the Grosjean/Choi Chinese study) to argue their point. 2.) Philomath's own water quality report shows levels of unwanted elements well within EPA standards, including no detectable arsenic. 3.) Clean Water Portland commenters on other boards have been quoting some analysis of a batch of H2SiF6 from 1990, which is irrelevant to the issue at hand; the fluoridation supplements that Portland will use will conform to American Water Works Association standards; standards that have been modified over the years, with the H2SiF6 standard last revised in 2011.
245
Nice work. Cuts through the myths, conspiracies, half truths, and untruths. Let's hope common sense prevails. Well written. Good common sense article.
246
Israel to stop mandatory fluoridation of water within one year.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israe…

The Mercury is on the wrong side of history. The name calling pro-fluoride camp needs to take a look in the mirror.
247
lol at the pro-fluoride camp supposedly being the ones that are name callers.
248
So many new members just to comment on this "article". My favorite are the ones that are agreeing with one another's one and only comment. Probably totally not the same person with multiple accounts.
249
At tcraighenry: As far as I can tell, you only post on here to snipe in one or two lines, then disappear for a while only to reappear and do the same thing. What substance are you providing? You can lol all you want, but you're the exact person who should look in the mirror.
250
Things that won't pass in Oregon: weed, fluoride
Things that did: gay marriage ban

Super progressive, everybody! Good job!
251
Well the disappearing is because like, I can't be here all the time. Sorry about that. I know you miss my wit.
252
You're missing the point FLORIDE IS TOXIC. Poor people do brush their teeth. FLORIDE IS TOXIC. It was first used in the concentration camps because! It makes people dumb and a little angy. ALSO WATER SHOULD NOT HAVE INGREDIANTS.. TOO MUCH FLORIDE IS TOXIC? WELL THEN i HOPE I DONT drink 'too much water'.
253
The mercury has been a total cia tool since they started. Let's all just ignore them THEY WILL GO AWAY. yay. loose your jobs. loose your ads!! pull ads from mercury. Watching ann ramano eat out of a dumpster will be Way more entertaining anyway
254
Seattle has fluoride and we have motherfuckin' orcas. What do you got, Portland? Salmon? Fuck yo salmon! Our orcas eat them!

Orcas don't care. Shit, google them, look at those awesome teeth. How'd you get such awesome teeth, Mr. Orca? Or Mrs.! Or Mz.! Or just click-click-eee-eee! We are progressive up here, and you orcas can marry same sex orcas while smoking pot! So why are you so awesome?

Fluoride, that's why. Boom.
255
Yeah, the state of Oregon is trying to poison its inhabitants, alongside its Politicians, State workers, Government workers, children grandpa’s and police men, all at once.

Use your head.
256
At Leaky 2.0 oz: (Circa 1957) Yeah, the FDA is trying to create birth defects by allowing Thalidomide.

Use your head.

Moral: Well-intentioned people are capable of making mistakes.
257
No real data to show that Fluoride reduces cavity rates among low-income children in comparatively sized communities that fluoridate. Too many variables to skew the data, i.e. subsidy rates for pediatric dental care, ethnicity (diets high in sugar vs diets low in sugar) - sure the fluoridation opponents are whack, but why is the science all over the map? Why do some high-level studies disagree with CDC studies? CDC studies of other issues have been wrong. Common sense dictates when in doubt, avoid adding more substances, hence complexity to the problem. Begin with reducing substances first - for instance: sugar.
258
Yinzer V, wow...I have an actual copy of an actual INDEPENDENT chemical analysis done on the "Fluoridation Chemicals" used in Philomath, the same wonderful company that will be supplying the "Fluoridation Chemicals" for Portland. It is not a "supposed" report. It is the real deal. I will scan it and email it to anyone who would like to see it for themselves. Only INDEPENDENT testing can be trusted, everybody knows that. It would be the equivalent of "peer review" that your cronies are espousing over on the HKHP thread, which I got banned from for posting these very BASIC SCIENTIFIC FACTS. I can't believe how rude all you paid thugs are being on these social forums. And that Portlanders are actually falling for this crap. I guess that must be your strategy though, divide and conquer, eh?
259
Roughly three-quarters of all Americans currently drink flouridated water, and the resulting health catastrophe has obviously been completely covered up by a conspiracy between the American Dental Association, The U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services, the United Nations and the Bilderbergs, because you NEVER HEAR ABOUT IT!!!

SERIOUSLY, GUYS! CONSPIRACY!!! IT'S THE ONLY EXPLANATION!!!
260
At Christopher Comte: Or maybe instead of people dropping dead and it being covered up, there are just subtle, mostly unprovable things that happen, like increases in kidney disease, subtle IQ differences from silicofluorides increasing lead levels, increased thryroid problems, none of which are traceable to fluoride except if you both have the will and the resources to produce studies that look for them, and have a control group that now doesn't exist.
261
And when they *do* actually look, they find things like this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1742005… (increased lead levels in children with silicofluorides vs sodium fluoride and no fluoride)
262
@ Homer, wouldn't it be, that circa 1957 the FDA accidentally almost created birth defects, or they just picked one or 20 or 80 in a bunch and said, here, birth defects by allowing Thalidomide.
263
@Christina - anti-fluoride people have compared fluoridation to rape and Nazism on this thread. I would think that is rude.

If you have the report, scan it and put it up on the Clean Water Portland website so we can take a look at the whole report, just like we can look up the Grossjean/Choi study (the Chinese study) that Clean Water Portland selectively quoted from. The Philomath water quality report is available online from the City of Philomath's web page; I have accessed it.
264
I'd be curious to know how many fluoridation opponents:

* already own expensive water filtration systems

* spend 100s on unproven nutritional supplements

* believe childhood vaccinations cause autism

* believe in homeopathy

* have their kids in charter schools

* call themselves progressive while espousing hard-core libertarianism
265
It's beyond libertarianism at this point, Steve. With the push-polls and bizarre arsenic scare stories, they're firmly into Rove territory now.
266
Evolution. Check. Global warming. Check. Fluoride. Check.
267
At Steve R: Why? Is it because it's easier for you to lump those with genuine scientific concerns about the safety of fluoride in with loonies than it is to do the more difficult job of researching the science and their arguments and rebutting those arguments intelligently?
268
If I told you substance X was proposed to be put in the water, and there are credible studies, one of which is in the journal Neurotoxicology, that definitively, statistically demonstrate an increase in lead levels in children vs not having it in there, and no one has rebutted that study, what would you conclude? If you're honest, you and everyone you know would immediately demand it not be in the water. But somehow, when Substance X is fluoride, you trust "the experts" more than yourself. Why?
270
AP: Drugs found in drinking water
Updated 9/12/2008

A vast array of pharmaceuticals — including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones — have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans.

People take pills. Their bodies absorb some of the medication, but the rest of it passes through and is flushed down the toilet. The wastewater is treated before it is discharged into reservoirs, rivers or lakes. Then, some of the water is cleansed again at drinking water treatment plants and piped to consumers. But most treatments do not remove all drug residue.

Another issue: There's evidence that adding chlorine, a common process in conventional drinking water treatment plants, makes some pharmaceuticals more toxic.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation…
271
Fuck you for putting the MAN WOLFS alongside the caption on the cover!!! I want to keep kids healthy by NOT flouridating the water! Flouridation started by the nazis to dumb down the IQ of other countries. Look it up. Thanks for not mentioning the costs that this crap will cost btw. AND if they are even POTENTIAL RISKS with this shit and not a direct correlation, I'm sure as hell not going to take it with anyone's kids! Lastly, the article doesn't mention how it isn't using naturally occuring Flouride, but FSA, which is an unpurified byproduct of industrial fertilizer manufacturing, not the flouride found in toothpaste! Also look into "Flourosis," which is the main threat to over-use. Like a commentor on here already said, how much is a low dose, high, etc. How much can you ingest and it be ok? Or before it cause damage? Too much of anything is not good.
272
@ Steve R. & kungfu:

That's the thing -- I think an extreme majority of the people that are anti-fluoridation (especially those that regularly read this publication) are firm believers in evolution and global warming, and think things like homeopathy and the idea that vaccines-equal-autism are bullshit. That's what makes this debate so odd -- it's one of the very few where the lefties are split.
273
@Happy_Hippo, I think people believe that waste water treatment magically removes or diludes toxins to undetectable levels before it reenters the water supply. Once again as I have in the past, I'd like to point out that the city consulted with exactly ZERO surface water specialists before voting to fluoridate the water supply. Our local ecology is very unique, and in turn extremely sensitive to minor fluxes in chemical composition. If you live here, and enjoy going outside, and enjoy the nature here, you're on the hook to protect it. Please don't let politicians force through irresponsible practices on the local level.
274
Have pets?

"Environmental Working Group found that eight major brands of dog and puppy foods have up to 2.5 times more fluoride than the E.P.A.’s maximum legal dose allowed in drinking water. (Maximum legal allowable fluoride in water is 4ppm however the recommended amount that water companies add to water is 0.7ppm). These 8 brands of dog foods contain an average of 9mg of fluoride per kilogram of dog food. Ouch.

On the up side, the study also tested two dog food brands that do not contain detectible levels of fluoride: one is made with vegetarian ingredients and the other is made by a small manufacturer.

Little research has been done on the effect of fluoride on dogs. However in 2006 the National Research Council published research noting numerous adverse health risks of fluoride on humans, including disruption of the brain, kidneys and thyroid, bone fractures and joint pain (among others).

Worth noting is: the amount of fluoride in the tested pet foods is higher than the amount of fluoride associated with the development of bone cancer (osteosarcoma) in young boys. Speaking of osteosarcoma, nearly 10 times as many dogs get this deadly and painful bone cancer each year as people do. Is it possible that osteosarcoma in dogs might be tied to fluoride consumption – like it is for boys? To date, no research has been done on this question."

This is a good, quick read. http://fluoridedetective.com/pets/
275
I am really appalled by the ridiculous article you've put out. First and foremost, the large majority of these alleged concerns that the opponents of fluoride have are ridiculous.

Fluoride is yet another one of the "ingredients" that have been added to our environment and bodies without our direct consent, and most importantly, without extensive study. Sure, some studies may find that fluoride, topically, can strengthen tooth enamel. The studies that haven't been done are the systemic effects. What's even worse, is that you literally write in the article (regarding the cancer aspect of the debate) that there is conflicting findings in studies regarding cancer. CANCER. why in the WORLD are we even humoring fluoride when there haven't been enough studies to prove, concretely, that we, and the other inhabitants of this planet, aren't negatively affected?!?

The truth is, this planet is already full of our byproducts from industry. The chemicals we find in our bodies and bloodstreams are alarming. They often originate from chemical, pharmaceutical, and agricultural industry byproducts. The overall health of the average person in this country is not good. The low-income regions and minority groups are struggling even more. To ADD yet another chemical to the mix (and if i hear one more time that the industrial byproduct version of fluoride that will be used is "natural", i will scream) to aid in preventing dental caries, only to increase the rate of organ and glandular issues, what sort of help are we offering?

I think it is insulting to think that we, as a city full of dedicated, positive, and progressive people, are told to resort to further chemically treating the water rather than investing that money into an empowering alternative.

Fluoride won't teach populations we're concerned for about the many components that increase the risk for dental caries and discomfort. Fluoride won't teach our children to brush, to not drink soda and processed foods. Fluoride won't teach our children the value of hygiene. Most importantly, fluoride won't pass down that knowledge from generation to generation, enabling a cyclical and growing rate of education and empowerment through personal action.

For the amount of money that the city is proposing to use towards the fluoridation facility, we could build, staff and stock multiple mobile dental units that could be transported to areas in the city, including schools, where children are having issues. They could be set up in neighborhoods to allow families to participate in their health together. Wouldn't you rather see that level of comradery than to set up a plant for chemical disposal?!?

I see the pessimists' side. They want to believe that people can't change. They want to believe that social work and assisting others by means of action and community is in vain. I think that it is the entire premise of being a human- to assist, to nurture, to discover. We could be doing those things.

So, stop using the whole "bandwagon appeal." Portland has never been on the bandwagon. Portland has done a phenomenal job (quite inspirational, really) at going against the grain and surpassing other cities in their innovative alternatives.
276
Most well reasoned, Sonja,

Now in your opinion, WHY is flouride REALLY being pushed?
277
Hey, Portland Mercury - did you know the US is one of a very few number of first world countries who add fluoride to any of their municipal water supplies? Most European countries have examined, and then rejected water fluoridation. For good reasons. And guess what? Do any of those non-fluoridated countries have greater amounts of cavities? Nope. You may have also missed the study done by KATU when the public records request also showed that Oregon communities showed no significant difference between those with fluoridated water vs. those without (EXCEPT for Portland, which has about 5% fewer cavities - some crisis, eh?).

You may not also know that municipal water supply fluoride is made from industrial waste byproducts. None of it is pharmaceutical grade fluoride (too costly), neither is it guaranteed not to be harmful by its suppliers.

Finally... love the argument that there are already low levels of fluoride in our water. There are also low levels of arsenic. Should we add more of that, too?

One of the biggest Mercury fails, EVER.
280
Activism through commenting on the Mercury website!
282
The CDC and the ADA warns against using fluoridated water with baby formula. Is this not reason enough?
283
Fluoride supporters are well-meaning do-gooders. They are well aware that anyone who wants fluoride can get it, but they are worried about the social equity of cavities (poor kids get them more than rich kids who presumably get fluoride pills from their doctors). They fail to take into account the growing masses of people who can't cope with the toxics in their environments. 15% of school kids are now diagnosed with ADHD and while no one knows what causes it, everyone pretty much agrees that toxics exacerbate it at least. Portland already has terrible air quality. Do we really need to burden the underclass of the health world by putting toxics in the water too? I am certain that this campaign suffers from shortsightedness and probably more than a little self-righteousness. A lot of money is getting spent to convince good hearted people that this is the right thing to do...but it isn't. Before you vote, read the facts: http://www.katu.com/news/problemsolver/Bef…
284
The Mercury is the FOX news of weeklies.
285
People in Beaverton have fluoridated water.

Have you been down to the "entertainment zone" blocks lately?

Yea, please vote NO.
286
Honestly, I'm kind of on the fence here but have been slowly leaning more and more towards the anti-fluoridation people. The reason is because despite that this debate has been going on for quite some time none of the questions raised by anti-fluoride people have been addressed in a reasonable matter. At first I expected these "conspiracy" theories to be put swiftly to bed by someone simply releasing some actual scientific studies with irrefutable proof that fluoride in the water is safe and effective. But none have come to light. The pro-fluoride groups, this Mercury article, and just about every comment on here that is for the measure resort to the same tactics: making jokes and/or saying trust the (insert some group we should trust without evidence ). Why not just present some evidence?
287
I grew up with fluoridated water and have enough cavities to prove that the water didn't prevent them. The cavities were not the result of clean drinking water. They were the result of poor dental hygiene and a diet of sugary foods and drinks. The problem that kids are having isn't caused by non-fluoridated water. Clean water does NOT cause tooth decay. The problem is cultural and socio-economical. I suspect that poor kids don't drink a lot of water when they can get two-liter bottles of cola for a buck. If adding fluoride to the water didn't prevent my cavities, it won't prevent theirs; changing our consumption and hygiene behaviors will.
288
Sonja won
289
I grew up in various places with fluoridated water and have good teeth! My sister did too and has bad teeth!

There's my anecdotal evidence for the day.
290
"In its proposed prohibition on sulfuryl fluoride, EPA acknowledged that the pesticide's residues on food are "responsible for a tiny fraction of aggregate fluoride exposure" but deemed that children's total contact with fluoride in the environment -- through drinking water as well as toothpaste -- posed an excess risk of tooth and bone damage."

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/01/11/11…
291
@sethwoolley I like how in your opening paragraph you mention you didn't actually read the article. I didn't read your other paragraphs, let's hope you did a better job.
292
The Fluoridated toothpaste that the Mercury's staff uses has a warning printed right on the label. The warning reads that if a person accidentally swallows some they should call poison control. My Fluoride-Free toothpaste has no such warning. After reading their cover story I'll be living Portland Mercury-Free as well. Vote NO on 26-151; It's the sane human thing to do.
293
96% of Europe does not add fluoride to its water, and Germany has banned fluoride all together. The Mercury is paid-for main-stream media cloaked in its "alternative" dressings.
294
Prozac, whose scientific name is fluoxetine, is 94% fluoride. "Any person who drinks artificially fluoridated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person, mentally or physically". -Charles Eliot Perkins, prominent U.S. industrial chemist. NO on 26-151!
295
VolvoGuy is wrong. Prozac's chemical formula is C17H18F3NO, which means that it contains 17 atoms of carbon, 18 atoms of hydrogen, 3 atoms of fluorine, and one atom each of nitrogen and oxygen.

All natural fluorine is F-19, so the three atoms of fluorine have a mass of 57. The fluoxetine molecule has a molecular mass of 309.33 g·mol−1. Do the math; it's much less than 94% fluorine.
296
Ha! Yinzer V is wrong, and perhaps a troll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfgewAieQW4 Don't "medicate" our water supply. Vote NO on 26-151.
297
CHARLES ELIOT PERKINS
The 'Perkins' story:

http://www.fluoridationfacts.com/education…

Harley Rivers Dickinson (An Australian Liberal MP) who raised the issue of fluoridation and its sinister implications in an "Address in Reply to the Governor's speech in Parliament." The 'Address' forms part of a document compiled by Ian E Stephens and is appropriately entitled the 'Dickinson Statement' ("the Statement"). The main thrust of the Address was as follows;-

"At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany. While there he was told of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff. This was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place. Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotisizing a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners-of-war to make them stupid and docile." (Reference: Victorian Hansard of 12th August 1987). Also see Dr Phyllis Mullenix.
298
HA!
what the F mercury...? REALLY?

Pathetic "Journalism". For you to print a piece that is so one-sided is just masterbatory .... nothing but an opinion piece. In MY opinion my kids shouldn't have to ingest Fluoride every time they take a sip of water.... that ALONE is a valid enough reason to keep it out.

While so many places have fluoridated water so many others, ALL over the world (Germany, The Netherlands, Canada. etc, etc) have/ are taking it out. The argument FOR is nothing but misleading. Why don't you take high fructose corn syrup out of school lunches; how bout access to dental care; how bout education! fuck you for printing such an opinionated one-sided piece on such a loaded issue... pathetic.

The new title of this piece: "THE MERCURY'S BIGGEST FAILURE".
300
People can die from drinking too much water. WATER IS POISON. Vote to keep water out of the hands of children!

Also, we don't need libraries because kids have books for free at school. Besides, how much do libraries cost? We have other priorities? And who's profiting from this library thing? Corporate publishers.

It's just a conspiracy of the military-industrial complex! Vote NO on sanity!
301
Poorest piece of muckraking journalism I've ever fuckin' heard. Fuck you Mercury for printing an opinion under the guise of journalism.
302
Well, just filled out my ballot and voted YES, though I am concerned that it may not pass with all the stupidity I'm reading here.
Hippies and Conspiracy Theorists Unite!
To include the dumb chick who thinks her masters in teaching and bachelor in english should impress me more than the reccomendation of the American Medical Assoc., the American Dental Assoc, or the vast majority of pediatricians throughout the country.
303
ugh the comments. hipsters just need something to complain about. life is just TOO PLEASANT!!!! go to africa and drink their all-natural water you hippie bastards.
305
"Some, like Portland dentist Jay Harris Levy, will speak eloquently—uninterrupted for many minutes—on a slew of studies and the mass toll they feel fluoride's having on society. But there's hardly a schism. These folks are in the vast, vast minority."

Why should being in the minority negate the legitimacy of his the argument? As Orwell said, "In a time of Universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act".

Fuck you, Mercury, for using such cheap tricks to spread propoganda at the expense of Portlanders. I though this beautiful city and your paper were safe havens for those who think outside the box- for those who don't just accept what they are told, because everyone else seems to be doing it. The rest of the US seems to flouridate their water, so that makes it right?

Fuck you. I would certainly pay much more in taxes for giving people in need free and qulality dental care if that's what this is really about.

And what's wrong with conspircay theories? Why is that so stigmatized? Is it really so stupid to look thoroughly and openly at all possibilities before deciding what seems credible? What makes you so trusting of what the Government says anyway?

Sounds like you were paid off.
306
WHY ARE MOST FOOD MARKETED TO CHILDREN LOADED WITH SUGAR & HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP?

WHY NOT FLOURIDATE CHOCOLATE MILK INSTEAD OF OUR TAP WATER?

I am glad I can afford a water filter.....
307
If we put birth control in the drinking water we would have a lot fewer children with cavities.

Does that mean we should put birth control in the water supply?


Justifying the use of chemicals in our drinking water is FLAWED LOGIC.

We need FEWER additives to our drinking water, not more!
308
Hey Christopher, wake up man! 99.9% of conspiracy theories are pure crap. They are stigmatized by the quality of the people making them and by usual foolish reasoning.
Conspiracy Theories are said to flourish in times of public mistrust...
Which obviously must be the case here for all these folks to think putting fluoride in the water is going to nefariously harm them.
Despite the advice of doctors and dentists.
Dentists putting money into this campaign with no financial gain to be made, and in fact, most likely to lose money eventually through better teeth in the populace.
Well, don't worry anti-fluoride folks - so the AMA and the ADA doesn't support you, you still have Jenny McCarthy on your side.

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