Comments

1
Since one of his points was that this somehow scuppers MLB in Portland did you ask him how he thought that would get paid for while still seeing to the "tremendous needs in this city"?
2
@Demonjuice: No, I didn't. But he said the city should continue to allow PGE Park to be shared between MLS and baseball, and not be "pushed" into the single use advocated for by MLS.

"There are plenty of stadiums I've been to where the bleachers are set up on the side so that both sports can co-exist," he said. "This is not a coexistent strategy. It's too aggressive."
3
Can we trade Saltzmans? That Saltzman seems way better than the one we've got now.
4
Did he make any attempt to explain this supposed love of baseball that Portlanders have? I don't really see the Beavers as being much more popular than the Timbers.
5
@Graham: No, but the dude was very stately in his bearing. You know how some older people just instantly deserve respect, sometimes? War hero, former pro athlete, and he still came down in his cap to give his two cents at council. I asked him if he'd discussed any of this with his nephew before presenting, and he said "no, we don't discuss anything to do with his role as a Commissioner." So it was decent, you know. He'd not tried to influence behind the scenes, just came down to say what he had to say.
6
Serious question here: is there anything that could get Saltz, Randy and Sam to vote against Paulson's soccer jones? I get the feel that the league could fold tomorrow and those three would continue to railroad this thing through.
7
Minor league baseball in Portland is a joke and has been ever since I moved here in 1997. Thirsty Thursdays is just about the main and only reason that non hard-core Beavers fans show up to the games. Attendance for non-Thursday games is pathetic, and attendance for Thirsty Thursdays isn't even that great taboot. The team the Beavers are affiliated with, the San Diego Padres, are a joke as well. They could care less about farming talent, and that means crap players for the Beavers. It's actually quite simple to see, and also horrible to watch.

Let's contrast this with the Timbers. Fans show up to watch the Timbers regardless of the time or date of the match. They come early and stay late. They've sold out PGE Park (something I can guess hasn't happened for a Beavers game in a long time if not ever). The Beavers win 5 games in a row and I guarantee you 99 out of 100 people either have no clue, or could care less. The Timbers win 5 in a row and word gets around and there's buzz. More people show up to the next home game and the Army grows...

Quit holding on to Minor League Baseball in Portland like blinded grandchildren that won't pull the plug on Nana, even though she's been a vegetable on Life-Support for 10 years.
8
@CH: I think Saltz could be turned but the other two don't seem to budge on this topic.
9
The league might not fold tomorrow, but it looks like there is going to be a player lockout this coming season. http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/80773332.html That's because the players mostly make $30,000/year and don't have guaranteed contracts and aren't allowed to sign for other team in the league even after their contracts are up. The salary cap for each team is also $2 milion. Basically, the MLS is so cheap it is willing to lock out the players to deny them above-poverty wages and the right to move to another team when their contracts are up. Is this the type of league that we want our city to be subsidizing?
10
"They've sold out PGE Park"

They place a tarp over one-third of the seats in the stadium. Not saying they couldn't sell the place out, but the last time they left the upper deck open (playoffs, 2007, I believe? They removed the tarp when it became clear they needed more seats) it was total gridlock. Took me all of halftime and half the second half to get a beer. I agree that blocking off 1/3 of the seats is necessary, but calling that a sell out is disingenuous.
11
oh, the Timbers fans and their rose-colored glasses.
12
"They place a tarp over one-third of the seats in the stadium."

Link?
13
The link is the fact that I have been to almost every Timbers game since 2005. Anyone else who has been to a game with their eyes open can confirm my claim.
14
Remember that we are already subsidizing Merritt Paulson's stadium worker wages because he is too cheap to pay them a living wage. These people are crooks, and our city council are accomplices. Dan Saltzman needs to get voted out, and Sam Adams needs to be recalled.
15
@MLS has no merit, perhaps you should change your name to: "MLS has no Merritt."

And I will change my name to THE PUNMEISTER. Thank you.
16
GLV, one-third? Really? I question your eyesight and/or estimating ability.
17
Quite the dapper gentleman - and right on the issue.

Mr. Saltzman also started & owned American Forest Products International @ www.lumber.com before selling out to Monsanto in the 1990s.
18
Fine. Since you are unfamiliar with google, here's a link. Look at the top 1/3 of the seats along the first base/right field line. Those tarps go all the way around the stadium, and are pretty much a permanent fixture at both Beavers and Timbers games. They were even in place at the AAA All-Star game last July.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/272622…
19
The full capacity for soccer is 19,566. US Open Cup attendance was capped at 16,382. You do the math.

I think you'll find it's considerably less than 33% covered by tarps.

(psst... it's less than half that percentage)
20
Oh blah blah blah. No MLS? There will be no baseball, no soccer, and no one paying rent (except, yes, the taxpayers) in PGE Park. It would also be awesome if someone could give a basic rundown on how $$ is distributed throughout a city to the layperson *before* that person spews a bunch of uneducated garbage out to the public about how if the Timbers fold, all the schools will be full of PhD'd teachers and potholes won't exist any longer. The Beavers make no money, no MLS teams share stadiums with baseball teams, the layout in PGE sucks for watching baseball anyhow, and if you really cared, you would get people to show up at Beaver games like the TA does for the Timbers. Get over it already and stop sniveling. Just because the older Saltzman is related to the Commissioner, let's not put sudden weight on all his words.
21
PGE Park total capacity: 19,566
attendance of sellout (w/ tarping) between Portland and Seattle (US Open Cup): 16,382 (http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ss…)

19,566 - 16,382 = 3,184 or 16.27%
1/3rd of 19566 = 6,456.78

MATH FAIL.
22
Really? You mean they "only" block of 16% of the seats in the stadium? You have just proven my point that the Timbers have never sold out PGE. Thanks.

And all those empty seats are going to be a permanent feature once the renovation is done (second paragraph):

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.s…
23
Was that your point? I just thought you were being a grumbling troll and even hedged your bets with "not saying they couldn't sell the place out."

But now you pulling grossly inflated numbers out of your ass has become a "point."

Actually now that I think about it, well played on the troll front, sir. I commend you.
24
"Saltzman said Portland could have a major league baseball franchise in a few years, if it weren't for this move."

Comedy.
25
Can you read? I said "I agree that blocking off 1/3 of the seats is necessary, but calling that a sell out is disingenuous."

So 1/3 was too many. That wasn't the point I was making.

And they COULD sell the place out, it would just be a miserable experience for everyone. People got turned away from the Seattle game last year, despite the fact that there were several thousand (is that general enough for you?) empty seats. Yet it was billed as a sell out, which, full circle, is disingenuous.
26
Is that general enough for me? I'm not sure I understand the question. I can speak in broad generalities and prove anything I'd like.

However, if you want to ask, "Is a more accurate statement better than a wildly inaccurate one?" then my answer is yes.
27
"I'm not sure I understand the question."

Shocked, I tell ya. Shocked I am.
28
MLB to Portland is a whole different issue with a whole different price tag. To even have a MLB ready stadium, PGE Park will require more renovations at a much higher cost then what it takes to revamp PGE Park for MLS. Is the space where PGE Park is now large enough to support a MLB stadium with out having take down the near by roads and buildings.
29
"Is the space where PGE Park is now large enough to support a MLB stadium with out having take down the near by roads and buildings."

No it's not. They were going to use it as a temporary stadium until the real stadium could be built where either Lincoln High now stands, the Post Office distribution center in the Pearl by Union Station, or where the PPS building is across the street from the Rose Garden.

Matt, I mean Mr. Saltzman no respect, but we all know this isn't going to cost $100 million. Even if Paulson wasn't putting in a single dime of his own money (he is) the final cost is $31 million. Of that only $11.2 million is being borrowed against the spectator facilities fund. The only real risk against the general fund is if the Blazers leave town.
30
Also...just to clarify one more thing. Are you pointing out that Mr. Saltzman didn't want to spend $31 million on soccer, but was supportive of spending $350-$600 million to bring Major League Baseball here?
31
I have to agree with Jack Acid. Claiming this deal is in the way of Portland obtaining a Major League Baseball franchise is a joke. MLB isn't coming anytime soon. My sincere hope is that the city doesn't botch this deal. I am proud that Saltzman has supported this and I will support him whenever he needs it. Fritz on the other hand is legitamately insane and has no business in city government.
32
That's why his comment is comedy, gstommylee. If the city rejects a private/public financial partnership where the city is on the hook for $12M in public spectator bonds (the rest being covered privately), no MLB team is ever going to say, "Hey, you know what, I know they balked at $12M, but I'm sure that's only because they really, really want to say yes to $500M." Rejecting this deal sends the message Portland isn't open to any team sports business. Which is a legit and valid stance, and how some people certainly feel. But what isn't legit, and is instead comedy, is Old Man Saltzman's comment that MLB could be coming if not for this deal. That would be like saying the City could buy every citizen a Ferrari if not for that damn budget approval to paint a few bike lanes.
33
Jack Acid

Only way PDX gets MLB team if some owner is willing to pay 100% of the costs to bring a team to PDX but i doubt there is one willing to do that at this point especially in this economic mess.
34
"... we all know this isn't going to cost $100 million. Even if Paulson wasn't putting in a single dime of his own money (he is) the final cost is $31 million."

It probably won't cost $100 mill, but saying the "final cost is $31 mill" is just as speculative. What was the final cost of the OHSU tram supposed to be? Or the last PGE remodel?

MLB ain't coming to Portland.
35
Keep Portland weird bro!! Let's never do anything and hang this deal up on a crummy minor league baseball team that NOBODY cares about. We can use the relative pittance it would have taken to create a nice soccer stadium to build a homeless shelter, it'll be sweet. Jesus
36
The rabid members of the Timber Army seem to be missing the point. There is just no compelling reason for the Portland public to finance a renovation of PGE Park to make it a soccer-only stadium. The Timbers play soccer there now and apparently lots of soccer fans make it out to those games. And a number of MLS teams play in mixed-use stadiums.

I'm all for bringing an MLS team to Portland, but they can play in PGE Park as is. Or Paulson can personally finance the construction of a new soccer-only stadium at a different location.

And Matt, I once called you a shitty journalist, but after having read more of your work, you're actually pretty good. Apologies.
37
Also amusing from Davis' perspective that apparently the most shocking and news-worthy angle here is that family members would disagree. Because that never happens. And it's a relative with an agenda. It's not like he just went up to say he doesn't support spending public money on sports, it's that he wants it spent on his sport. Shrug.

Go Brentford.
38
CH

Actually as part of the deal Merritt has agreed to pay any over costs that is more than 1m dollars.
39
Ted,
RE: Davis you had it right the first time.
40
There are two things we need to keep in the front of our minds in the coming years.

First, Dan Saltzman needs to be voted out. Our representatives need to be shown that they will be held accountable for selling the public up the river. Adams and Leonard will have to come later.

Second, we will never allow Henry and Merritt Paulson's soccer team to be regarded as a true Portland team. They do not respect the citizens of Portland and so we should not give them any respect back. They are banking on us going to games and watching on TV after this whole boondoggle is rammed down our throats, but we will not. The Timbers are no longer a Portland team while the Paulsons reign. The true Portland teams are the Trailblazers, the Beavers, and the Winterhawks. This is our city. Paulsons, GTFO.
41
MLB in Portland in a "few years"? Bwaa-HAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, that was a good 'un.

Where are all these baseball lovers when the city tries to build a new baseball park for them in Lents or MC? (Or during Beaver games for that matter?) If they had 1/2 the numbers or organization of the Timbers Army we'd have bulldozed that Post Office site years ago.

>The rabid members of the Timber Army seem to be missing the point. There is just
> no compelling reason for the Portland public to finance a renovation of PGE Park to
> make it a soccer-only stadium.

You must be a landlord's dream! Can I lease you my house and have you finish my basement and put on a new roof before you vacate?

Please wait...

and remember to be decent to everyone
all of the time.

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