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Me, I'm just happy that I can soon socially partake in one vice without having to partake in the other.
"Hey, as soon as they allow smoking in Powell's I'm going to start hanging out there."
Let's face it, the total number of drinks bought in this town is going to go down and that's that. The non-smokers have had a majority of the bars to themselves for a long time, at least anywhere near the central city. I wish them luck keeping the classic places in business, since they're going to have to continue to support Mint, Cork, Pour, Mold, Moss or whatever stupid one-word name bar they've been getting their self-righteous drunk on at up til now. Break out those wallets, O dainty ones! Classic bar culture rests in your hands now!
And Don Younger, cry into your Boddington's all you want, but regardless of whether or not you care to admit it, this is going to be a windfall for you and you know it. Your regular puffers are still going to come to your bar, along with those of us who have been avoiding the place due to the horrible air quality. The least you could do is steam clean the carpets for us on Dec. 31.
But I do miss PG's rants.
The pungent stench of the one-word fern bar crowd can be just as bad.
I understand Mr. Younger's feelings, but as others have pointed out - and as other cities' histories demonstrate - I think he will be pleasantly surprised by the numbers of people willing to go to the HB that were not before. The "soul" of the place is another question, of course, but is smoking really central to the essence of the HB?
Of course, if the place still reeks of cigarettes, my enthusiasm will be somewhat diminished...
For Dan, and other landlords, there are currently three possibilities. Their first choice is a smoky pub. Fair enough - I don't agree, but it's their choice, good luck to them. But that choice is no longer available after Jan 1, whether you like it or not. So you now have two possibilities: a clean-smelling smokefree pub, or a stinking smokefree pub. They are the only two options remaining. Are you really saying you'd prefer it if your pub smelt bad???
Your money spent drinking at smoke-free Horse Brass will be money you aren't spending somewhere else. No net gain. This is zero sum, as far as I can tell. But bring it, antismokers! Correct me! Tell us where you go out currently, and tell us where you plan to go in addition! And then tell us how you imagine you will pay for this sudden increase in alcohol expenses. (By being tip stingy, I imagine - probably already in your skill set).
Admit it: you'll just say anything to support a world where you're somehow magically no longer tempted to take up the habit again. The truth is a casualty in your terror of having to witness other people enjoying a fucking smoke. Well as I said, you're going to have to drink at Sandy Hut etc. IN ADDITION to supporting Leaf, Bliss, or wherever you and your sensitive nose have been posing until now. Because those of us who smoke when we drink might go out only slightly less come 2009, but in any case we sure aren't going to take the empty seat in Doug Fir your sudden enthusiasm for The Trap has left vacant.
i don't smoke, and i don't care if people smoke indoors - fireplaces do. 'course people who install fireplaces are smart enough to put in chimneys with 'em; no one was ever that thoughtful in designing the smoking sections of restaurants. those bowling-alley air-venting/cleaning systems seemed to work pretty well, i couldn't smell the smoke one lane away. obviously, there were ways to do it, it just doesn't seem to be worth the investment to keep the occasional business of the five or six die-hard indoor smokers left in the state of oregon.
it's a workplace law for god's sake, people. the people who work there - even people who CHOSE to work there! i like how it's assumed people who work in bars, bowling alleys and clubs have such economic clout that they can just go back to the union hall and get a job any-old-where, somewhere that meets all their personal requirements - don't deserve to go home every night smelling like they've been fighting a fire in a tobacco warehouse all night just because that's where they happen to work. everyone deserves humane working conditions, even waitstaff. is that so hard to grasp? jesus.
for whatever it's worth, i think it's ridiculous that smoking sections outdoors are so severely limited. that's where smoke is supposed to be, right? outdoors - that's why the chimneys. i think smokers have a good argument there if they want to take it that direction.
There you go, spudboy. Ad hominem, strawman, and general purpose lazy/stupid rolled into one. Well done.
The straw man popped up in the first comment and continued throughout the thread as people kept implying that Mr. Younger's argued had anything to do with suffering some sort of economic ramifications, positive or negative, due to the ban. My comment merely reiterated that Mr. Younger's lament was that the ban will like change the "personality" of the bar by changing the individuals that make up the community, regardless of whether he winds up with a smaller or larger number of customers. I figured that paraphrasing the original argument would be a more effective strategy for refocusing the discussion than pointing and screaming "strawman" like a toddler who just learned a new word, because, as you are right now discovering, such behavior tends to take the discussion even further afield.
...So sez A-Cat. You any relation to A-Hole, A-Cat? I'm jes' kiddin'. We's out here in the countrified parts ain't too up on no Latinate phrases such as Ad Hominem. Shucks, last time I heard such talk, was when Mammy was askin' me if I wanted grits or hominy with my smoked butt! Land sakes! But it do occur to me that you come out o' the box impugnin' Mr. Spudboy's intelligence without quite specifyin' why what he's sayin' is gettin' up in your "nelly-whites"! Out where I come from, such behavior like to get a man strung up. But don't pay me no mind. I'm jest an old fart likes his stinky carpets and his dingy wallpaper. Never cottoned much to smokin' much, though! (HEH HEH)
You both good boys. You get along now, y'hear?
I think A-Cat would find all of it real fun, and he may consider himself officially invited to drop in, take his shoes off, and set a spell.
I'm not going to deny that the "dainty, self-important" comment could be construed as an ad hominem attack, it was certainly intended as such, but dainty is an amusing word, and you have got to use it when the opportunity presents itself. You are still failing to make the straw man case, however, A cat; referring to someone as dainty and self-important may belittle them, but it doesn't misrepresent their opinion.
(...Aw, I'm jes' kiddin'. A-Cat's a good boy. Way down deep inside, he's a good boy. Way, way, way, deep, deep, deep down inside, where nobody can see, A-Cat's a real good boy, and I know a good sport like him don't mind a little funnin'.)
Anyway, to more pressin' matters:
Has the world turned plumb upside-down, or am I a Monkey's Uncle Come To Sunday Dinner? In the good old days, bars were wide-open pits of sin and depravity, and we wouldn't have it no other way. Anything was fair game in a bar, within certain margins of civility. A man walks the straight and narra' as best he can, and come quittin' time he needs to restore himself with the soothing ministrations of his favorite vice. When the time comes for a smoke, a whiskey, and some shit-shooting (hell, throw in some video poker while yer at it - y'only go around once) a man sure don't appreciate findin' his favorite spot don't take his type no more.
His vices been payin' the light bill for decades, and now he's just a bum on the stoop.
Like my father, and my father's father's father, I could never get the hang of drinkin' without a Lucky in my fingers, nor would I want to. Where's the sense in it? I'd just spend my time missin' it, and I got better things to do twixt now and Gabriel's horn solo. They "cleaned up" Jimmy's Tap about a year back. Place lost all appeal to me. The Lord and I both know I'm a flawed, disreputable man at heart. What the Sam Hill kind of man wants to spend his time in a bar he can't see eye to eye with?
You are Matt Davis and I claim my £5. Good game, mate.
The fun thing about the text medium is that we have a concrete record of everything conveyed. You're welcome to claim that calling me "a douchey bitch" is equivalent to me writing "brilliant, Spudboy", but anyone that can read can see that it's a retarded suggestion. Again, the idea is retarded; I claim nothing about you as a person. Take care.
I guess it must be pretty embarrassing to have yer paranoia exposed here, by you yerself, yet. Sometimes, son, a man can be his own worst enemy, and I say that with Christian love in my heart. I'm tellin' ya, it ain't too late to fix the nosedive yer in. The Lord Jesus Christ has been a great help to me, and I humbly suggest you get to know The Lamb.
Unlike Mr. Spudboy, I will refrain from even remotely suggestin' that you are a "Douchey Bitch." I don't think that was kind, and I try to follow the Golden Rule.
You know what Cousin Walsh said about A-Cat? It 'bout brings tears to my eyes to even type it.
"That Cat Man may be smart, but he should try being funny or witty or entertaining or even a little bit nice once in a while."
I couldn't help it, and I'm man enough to admit it: I dropped that slop bucket, and gave Cousin Walsh the hardest, biggest hug you ever saw. You shoulda seen the smile on that boy's face, like the biggest, brightest sunrise you ever seen.
But I used to box in the Army. Fort Huachuca, 1954-1957. And I do know a good punchin' bag when I see one.
Do you consider anyone who opens a new bar in Portland to be diluting your assumed static level of demand, thereby reducing business at every single other bar in the city?
Do you believe that unpleasant factors of any sort associated with a sector of the consumer or service economy, once removed, have no effect whatsoever on the overall demand for that sector's product?
Do you believe that the population of either the Portland metro area or the city itself is static?
I await the forthcoming publication of your dissertation on this issue in a peer-reviewed journal.