- Can’t we all just get along?
Gah! Just a quick, depressing update from the front lines of the fight over abortion rights (in case you thought Iowa was the only crazy state): West Virginia and Oklahoma moved forward laws this afternoon requiring or encouraging women who want abortions to get ultrasounds first.
This sounds like a terrible joke. Sure, it’s still legal to have an abortion, but first you must STARE YOUR FETUS IN ITS TINY UNFORMED FACE! Aaaghhh! It’s like states are basing their legislation on Juno’s “fingernails” scene.
But yes, today Oklahoma’s House passed legislation by an 87-7 vote (WTF) requiring women who are considering abortions to get ultrasounds. Right to Lifers are spending the afternoon celebrating a law that West Virginia passed today 25-7 which requires abortion providers to tell women who want abortions that they’re have the option to view an ultrasound, similar to a law Utah passed in February. Kentucky legislators killed a similar law last week. The debate over how to shame women into not getting abortions is becoming downright trendy.
Nothing like this is on the table for Oregon, at least. Planned Parenthood’s president praised Oregon’s reproductive laws as some of the best in the nation when she visited Portland last month.
Sad. The polarization in this country is leading to some kind of ugly Civil War-esque shit. It’s been said before but worth repeating – If men were able to give birth abortions and birth control would be available for all without question. These people see women as herd animals who must be contained and controlled.
I’m curious as to how many of the people involved in that 87-7 vote were women.
Telling someone they have the option to see an ultrasound is a control mechanism that will lead to a civil war?
The real question is how do they pro/con sides of these bills break down by gender?
All of this abortion talk makes me want one. A nice, guilt-free, completely frivolous Oregon abortion would piss off the anti-choicers something fierce, and that would make me feel so very good.
Wait, is this a government mandated medical procedure?
I can’t remember how I feel about those.
@Abusive – I totally agree with Smirk in this article, but I don’t think your man bashing is fair. There are a lot of anti-abortion females out there. Don’t people’s views on the topic correlate more directly to religion, rather than to gender?
Nex and Abusive,
I don’t want to go through and count up which legislators who voted for the bill (link below) are women, but it’s worth noting that the person who introduced the bill is female rep Lisa Billy.
Here’s the vote rundown if you want to figure out the gender split:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/CF/2009-…
So if you don’t look at an ultrasound, then there isn’t really a fetus in there? Magical.
@Blabby – It’s the abortive version of Shrodinger’s Cat.
Kevin Mannix proposed the same thing when he was in the legislature. I was surprised that Saxton never used it against him in the primary.
@Blabby I wonder if you’ll have a clever remark for when they pass a bill requiring you to look at your sperm under a microscope every time you buy a condom.
@Atomic – That’s a very weak analogy.
You COULD improve it by changing “buying a condom” to “getting a vasectomy,” since we’re talking about medical procedures and not items of apparel. But…would that be a problem? Who would mind looking at their sperm before a vasectomy? I’d sure hope I had a funny quip ready, because that seems like a perfect time for one.
“Contraception” and “abortion”. Look em up.
I was operating under the subset of “things some religious nutjobs consider murder” and “some other things religious nutjobs consider murder.” Onanism is no laughing matter with these people, you know.
I suppose I took the easy conclusion jump with the Bro-hatin but this is quite the utter bullshit intrusion into the right of choice for the person ACTUALLY having the procedure. These same people (yes I am generalizing) will not cry foul over collateral damage (ie innocent bystanders blown to bits) in our War on (T)Error in other countries. Tea-Fucking-Baggers who decry “BIG GOVERNMENT” will praise the “FAMILY VALUE-ness” of this but run in fear of giving children (and adults) sex education. If women were given more info about the possible after effects of an abortion (cervical/uterine cancer) then they could make a choice based on facts and not that self referential book they like to wave around.
Killing a fetus is killing a developing person. If it makes you uncomfortable to call it “murder”, so be it.
I actually support abortion rights. I just don’t support taking it lightly and treating it like a trip to the salon.
While most Americans support legal abortion, most also support various conditions on it. ‘Taint black and white.
WHATS SO BAD ABOUT GIVING A WOMAN THE RIGHT TO SEE HER UNBORN CHILD? ALOT OF CLINICS FAIL TO GIVE WELL ROUNDED COUNSEL. YOU ARE MAKING NEWS OUT OF NOTHING! THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO VIEW THE ULTRASOUND! SLOW NEWS WEEK??????????
susie – no, this legislation is REQUIRING women to scope the scans.
Susie, how many unwanted children have you adopted and raised? How many are non-white?
Bite me.
ALL CAPS IS FUN! WHO LIKES FUN? I DO!
Hey, Blabby, call it whatever you want to call it. Just know that whatever you might be thinking about all the frivolous aborters out there, someone in some state legislature is thinking about you.
Hopefully you wont mind whatever “conditions” they decide to apply in the future.
Sounds like government-forced health care choices are a real winner then.
@Blabby – “Killing a fetus” is an oxymoron in its legal American practice. A structure of living tissue that would not survive outside a woman’s body is not alive and thus cannot be killed.
John Edwards is a “developing person”; a real estate corporation is a “developing person”. A 2nd trimester fetus has no memories, no self-awareness, and is cognitively below the mammals we eat.
@ Night moves:
“A 2nd trimester fetus has no memories, no self-awareness, and is cognitively below the mammals we eat.”
So is an actually born baby, as well as an infant. I’m guessing then that viability is what you’re hanging your hat on, and I think it’s beyond clear that just saying the current state of the law doesn’t settle many arguments in this area. Also, a “fetus” does become viable (viable = able to live outside the womb) at some point, so you CAN kill a fetus under your own definition.
I do agree with you however that a 170th term abortion is in order for Sen. Edwards.
Reality is reality, Night Moves. “Legal American practice” doesn’t alter reality, nor does using words and terms which frame an uncomfortable subject in a way more pleasing to you. Reality is still there, shooting you a peace symbol from the womb.
Strange, because you have to perform an ultrasound to confirm the pregnancy before performing an abortion anyway.
@commenty, The infant point is true. Grotesquely, that’s maybe why infanticide was so common through history. Humans place a high premium on cognition in valuing life. Many people feel worse about killing an elephant than a chicken. For our own species, I think we should make an exception to restrict abortion to before the fetus is able to naturally survive outside the womb (barring severe health risks). People who choose abortion and don’t feel guilty aren’t putting a “pleasing spin” on reality, Blabby. First hand witnesses to an operation don’t need to have “reality” explained by armchair ethicists and street preachers.
If you are ok with an aboriton, then I imagine seeing your fetus wouldn’t matter. Just a blob of moving cells, right? Ok, maybe there is a finger in there somewhere..oh and a femur.. and a liver… and- oh- wait- is that a heart beating? Never mind, go ahead and suck it out. Nice to meet you, fetus on the screen. Sex is not a right. The choice is before the act.
I used to be pro- choice. I am now pro- choosing life.
totally out of the loop here but just reaching out to women I have always been pro life_ sad but true each female faced with the abortion choice is tough and every situation is differant. I had one almost a year ago out of fear and it haunts me everyday I hate myself I truly do that choice I made has effected me in so many ways, I have two children I feel I do not deserve I’m not a full functional mother I used to be and no one to be there for me I fight everyday to be strong,right or wrong descion it hurts to anyone considering an abortion once you do that you cannot take it back have your child there are many couples that cannot have children open adoptions are always an option.