"[T]his afternoon's breaking story is undoubtedly the saddest sign of the times yet."
My ass.
I bet you were real sad to break this story, Matt. Too sad to even bitch about not getting all the credit for it. So very, very sad for the travails of the Mayor, and these trying economic times.
Fuck the mayor. How were we all so duped that he had Portland's best interest in mind? Baseball and Soccer and 12 lane bridge!?!? Now it seems he doesn't pay his bills either.
Fuck the mayor.
The mayor's legal troubles are hardly a 'sign of the times' and have nothing to do with the housing crisis, save for the fact he has an ARM.
You should be able to afford a $900 payment when you make $118K a year.
As for the legal trouble, just don't make out with 17 year olds in city hall.
The physical street address is different from his mailing address for some reason. And it's all public information on the secretary of state's website, regardless. Nonetheless, done.
Property Value (2008)
Market Value $212,980.00
Assessed Value $77,410.00
Taxes (2008)
Property Taxes $1,643.79
Year Built 1924
Foundation Type Concrete
Roof Cover Type Composition
Heating/AC Type Forced Air, CENTRAL AIR CONDITIONING
With interest rates as good as they've been lately, he should be paying much less per month than $959.81. My wife and I just re-fi'd our 200K mortgage, and our payments are just a few dollars more than Sam's each month.
I *want* to like Sam, but he's really not having a good streak of luck lately.
Score one victory for the homophobic bigots forcing him to get (and pay for) a legal defense. Lawyers don't come cheap. I just hope that if he's found innocent of breaking the law, he'll sue the pants off anyone who accused him of being a pedophile, to get the money back.
(Disclaimer: of course, if he's found guilty of breaking the law, my sympathy for him would end instantaneously; but innocent until proven guilty and all that...)
This one is going to hit the AP wire service and get picked up by the national media, including the NY Times. I guarantee.
Why lying is while serving the public is bad reason 101: You might have to hire expensive lawyers due to a certain legal investigation over your lies. This might cause you to not be able to pay your mortgage. Lesson? Lying is stupid.
Also, due to the support of Adams and the Auditor's office, the City made it very easy last year to find out contact info for property ownership: www.portlandmaps.com. Just type in 2121 N McClellan. Or alternately, one can just hop on over to the County Tax Assessor's office and ask them since it is all public record. And the phone number on this foreclosure list is for Northwest Trustee Services, not Adams. Duh.
I'm curious how the logic dictates one is a homophobe when the act under investigation has nothing to do with homosexuality, but rather pedophilia, lying to get into elected office, possible lying on election-sanctioned matters, etc. There may actually be people that take issue with the man's ability to run the city well with continual distractions. It certainly is proving his inability to pay very low mortgage rates making 6 figures (with no significant expenditures like children either!)
There may also be a subset of homosexual population that simply doesn't want this man tarnishing the progress already made for gay equality.
I pay all our family bills every month, even with only one income in this recession.
I am EMBARASSED that the mayor of my city can't take care of less than $1K/month for his housing. When he misses a payment, he COSTS US ALL money in collection costs. These will be passed down to those of us who do WHATEVER WE CAN to pay our mortgage each month.
I think the WWeek piece adds a bit more detail to this story: the house being foreclosed on (or at risk, anyway) is not Sam's primary residence, and he also owns a triplex in the same area.
"In January 2003, property records show, he bought two properties for $130,000 each:
2121 N. McClellan, which appears to be his primary residence and the property next door at 2131 N. McClellan, which the Portland Mercury reported today is in foreclosure.
In August 2006, when the property market was still riding high, Adams â who makes $118,144 a year now as mayor â bought another nearby triplex at 2031 N. McClellan for $349,000."
Wait, seriously? My (SF) rent is more than his mortgage and I make less than him. His mortgage payments are less than 10% of his (pre-tax) income! How is he possibly defaulting?
The logic is:
There are several camps who want Sam out. As was pointed out in a Mercury article not long ago. I'd summarize them as:
a) people annoyed that he lied (including Jasun Wurster). This strikes me as the most valid reason to be upset.
b) people who have always opposed his policies. They lost the election and haven't got over it yet.
c) people who have more recently come to oppose his policies. I'm not convinced this group is as large as they claim it to be, since I strongly suspect many fall into one of the other categories, but give them the benefit of the doubt. They're the ones trying to abuse the recall process, instead of waiting until the next election to vote him out.
d) homophobes.
e) people accusing him, without proof (or indeed evidence), of pedophilia.
All the evidence I've seen (on this and other comment sites) is that there's a huge crossover between the last two groups. And very few people who are in e) but not in d). It's these people that are causing the legal problems, not the first three groups.
The homophobes aren't Sam's only enemies right now, but they're the ones I blame for this...
OPB just ran the story citing the Oregonian as source. Oregonian search engine, "sam adams" & foreclosure get's Davis' post on Reddit - now on the Oregonian web site front page.
Wraparound coverage.
The unanswered question is, how much have Adam's lawyers cost to date to guide him through the Kroger investigation (and don't think you'd go in there without a lawyer either).
"I'm curious how the logic dictates one is a homophobe when the act under investigation has nothing to do with homosexuality, but rather pedophilia"
Ok, look. At the very worst, Sam had sex with someone a few months shy of his 18th birthday. Say what you will about the illegality of that, and what it says for a 40 year old to be checking out a 17 year old, but nobody can say that this is anywhere close to "pedophilia," which typically is associated with sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children.
Stu, I'm concerned about the possible pedophilia, but I'm not a homophobe. Just because you can't get your head around it doesn't mean it's not possible.
I support gay rights and am as far from a homophobe (or sexphobe) as one can get. However, I gave up my support for Adams months ago. It is also wrong to assume that the gay community is some kind of unthinking voting bloc. "Just Out" magazine has asked Adams to resign: http://blogout.justout.com/?p=5945
The problem isn't that Adams doesn't make enough to cover his mortgage, since it looks like he was current on his payments as of January, (he is 5 months, plus late fees behind.) The problem is that Adams doesn't make enough to pay his lawyer AND cover his mortgage.
If anyone wants to say how they can make their payments on half his salary, while being investigated by the AG, then we can talk. But until then, a lot of you guys are missing the point...
It's pretty bad financial management to be unable to pay a monthly mortgage payment of under $1000 while making a six figure salary. His mortgage payment comes to under 10% of his gross monthly income.
Blabby: Not exactly (Innocent until proven guilty and all that.) But that isn't the point.
Look at the comment between yours and mine, people seem to be confused about the story, the story here isn't that he can't make 10% of his paycheck to his mortgage, the story here is lawyers are expensive. Did these people not read it to the end? Are they just really dumb? Both? Quite frankly I think those comments are actually more interesting than the story itself, (since I already knew that lawyers are expensive.)
There is considerable confusion about the word pedophile.
"The term pedophile has its origins in ancient Greek as a synonym to pederast; that is, a man who falls in love with adolescent boys.
However, it has acquired many different meanings in different parts of the world, and among different segments of society. Researchers and clinicians often use the term in inconsistent ways:
North American researchers who have extensively studied adult attraction to minors limit pedophilia to the presence of enduring preferential feelings of sexual attraction for prepubescent children, not for adolescents. These feelings must be stronger than those for adolescents or adults, regardless of actual sexual behavior. Pedophiles may or may not act on these feelings.
Some researchers, especially those in Europe, extend pedophilia to include feelings for adolescents."
I'm fond of Europe, and use the word pedophile as they do. And some of us can be totally disgusted about being lied to without thinking his personal crimes were so bad. Pedophiles have contributed to society and should not be categorically demonized; there is evidence that DaVinci liked boys. Enough with all the certainty about the morality or immorality of other people's personal lives, the lying is the unacceptable part, politically speaking.
Portland's mayor's problems are self induced. Thinking with Mr Wiggle and then allowing a smear campaign against those who called him on it are why Mayor Adams is where he is today. It's not some homophobic/pedaphilic uprising (duh!). Also, I don't know any lawyer that would not extend terms on what he is owed to keep his client from getting more bad publicity. I seriously wonder if the Mayor's financial drain is a result of financial efforts made by him to keep more bad publicity from hitting the papers. Time to check out Sam; for Portland, the people of Oregon and your own well being.
He does not pay his health club bills either, btw. Lets also not forget that he went BK on his credit cards due to "medical bills." Funny, his problems are always someone elses fault i.e legal, medical.
If he is such a "great person" that is being persecuted why is no one loaning him 5K? That is only $10 per person that showed up at that stupid rally...Storm, Thomas, Dan...anyone?!
He didn't just lie to us during the election, he used homophobia as a shield during the election to gather support, and people gay and straight rallied behind him. He kept that lie (instead of simply not commenting. Had he never commented, and said "I do not comment on rumors or items having to do with my personal life," I'd have his back 100%)
Then he lied again to his colleague when he stated that he had no more surprises.
Then he brought sex into his worklife as he made out in a Publicly funded bathroom.
There are so many lies that any semblance of trust for this man has vanished. This lack of fiduciary trust is the icing on the cake. This probably will go national media, and again we are the embarrassment of the country. We now have a broken state (foodstamps for 1/6 of Oregonians,) City (Portland laying off significant city employees.) and improper economic debates (stadiums, hotels, and pro soccer, get fucking real, ) we're facing Oakland bankrupcy it's looking like here.
Attorney's fees aside, he overextended himself by purchasing three properties within three years for over 1/2 million dollars total, not including realtor and other fees (all on McClellan Street; it's unclear whether the triplex is in danger of foreclosure but it looks to me as though he might have overpaid for that property in 2006). All but his own property should be bringing in rental income and he has his six figure yearly income as well as what other investments and assets he may have. I'm afraid that even with the attorneys fees it looks like bad financial planning and management.
"I'm afraid that even with the attorneys fees it looks like bad financial planning and management." Yep, that pretty much sums up Adams' leadership as Mayor thus far.
Blabby, you are right, the real point of this post seems to be to figure out if all the anti-Sam trolls are still here. (They are.)
But even D got my point, (way before I posted it too.) Are you suggesting that Sam was having trouble making his house payment before he got into legal trouble? I think you just don't want to admit that when someone has significant legal bills that house payments may be lower on the list...
Geez - Portland is at the forefront of a changing USA of Rome - The first openly gay, homeless, twice bankrupt, pedophile, non high school graduate, etc etc etc Mayor! Yay Portland! I love ROME!!!
Props to the best journalist in PDX for breaking shit, once again!
quoting Fred Stewart at length on anything regarding Sam is a big mistake. Fred supported Sam for Mayor - and then turned on him like a spurned lover when the Breedlove crapola hit. the nastiest things i read about Sam were written by Fred on Facebook. for weeks, comment after comment about what an evil person Sam is.
find another person to comment on the Mayor's situation. Fred's perspective on anything Adams is way too skewed.
How did someone with a history of personal bankruptcies get loans for non-residential houses? It couldn't possibly be loan fraud, could it?
As for sex related arguments, please, spare me- this has nothing to do with what pot roast or the age of the pot roast he parks his dick in.
This does has everything to do with explaining 4 billion dollar albatrosses over the Columbia and stadiums for rich kid's hobbies while a fifth of local families need help from a food bank, however. The man's judgment is hideous, period. This is just another example.
KRIS: You asked, "How were we all so duped that he had Portland's best interest in mind?" We weren't ALL so duped. Some of us voted for the other candidate who has been surprisingly quiet through all of this.
"How did someone with a history of personal bankruptcies get loans for non-residential houses?"
Personal bankrupcies are wiped off the record after 7 years. If he had good credit after the declaration, with 1 118K salary he could get credit extended easily, especially in credit happy USA for the past 10 years.
Some of the most successful business men in America have gone Bankrupt several times before they finally made it. Sam could have had a good reason to file a BK. I would not hold the BK's against him as I feel someone that has failed is usually a better credit risk than someone that has never seen failure. This is America and America is a country for second chances.
I wonder where are all of the pedophiles that usually defend Sam Adams. Has the Portland Police rounded up all of them?
Remember about a month ago when there was pretty near universal acclaim for the job he did with the city budget? Which generated fewer complaints than any other budget in memory, despite being at a nightmarish time economically? I guess there's little relation between how good a job someone does and their personal life. Who'd have thought it?
(Oh, yeah, everyone with an IQ above 80 would have thought it)
Except, that city budget is currently in the crapper. Several PDC loans given for developers and other projects are dangerously close to default, Adams boosted his staff and bureaus with several non-essential "policy advisor" FTEs, and BDS must now lay off staff. Even the consideration of transferring TIF for sports stadiums illustrates to many of us that Adams can't balance a cup of coffee on a table.
Plus, Sam himself didn't write the budget. He simply approved it.
Stu, Matt D, whoever else,
Can you at least admit you're starting to feel just a little embarrassed defending this guy? I mean, he's kind of a train wreck. He's not rewarding your faith very well.
Blabby - embarrassed, no. Do I think he's been perfect? Hell no. While I don't think for a second that it's recall-worthy, I'm not about to forget that he lied. And I don't support the convention center hotel for a minute.
He's made more mistakes than I'd like. Are those mistakes bad enough for me to want him out, after balancing the good as well as the bad? No. Do I think he's been good for the city, and far better than any of the other candidates would have been (and far better than any of the other potential successors - Bragdon, Fritz, Dozono, Leonard - would be)? Yes, absolutely. I'd still vote for him over any of them.
I also think that people should be defended against unfair accusations even if you disagree with them on everything else, rather than (as a lot of people on here seem to do) making my mind up on him in general terms and then throwing everything you can at him hoping something will stick. Hell, I've even defended Cheney on single issues before now...
Random thoughts:
The fact that the definition of the word pedophile is even being discussed in an article about the mayor is yet another "thank you, Sam" moment.
This has nothing to do with the foreclosure crisis; the mayors earnings to mortgage ratio is too high. It has everything to do with self-imposed legal issues that are requiring the mayor to pay for legal representation.
Like I said, I don't defend his lying. I just don't think lying about sex is serious enough to warrant a recall.
As for "character assassination" - sorry, but Ball deserved everything he got. He tried to spread untrue (unless proven otherwise, which they haven't been yet) rumors about Sam having sex with an underage boy. With no proof. Every single thing Sam said about Ball remains true, and the allegations made by Ball were an unfair and unjustified attempt at character assassination. The whole "Ball was hard done by and has been proved right" argument ignores inconvenient things like facts...
making out with a minor - not the height of self control
become a liar over making out with a minor - worse
if that was it... ok... we just figure he has poor judgment and ask that he pass everything by city council before approving it...
add to that
car wrecks, huge bridges, unneeded stadiums, hotels we cant pay for, staff members who appear to have gotten their job as a pay off, former staff members suing him, late on a few mortgages, etc, etc, etc, etc... is there ANYONE that thinks Portland will come out of our economic crisis better if we have a super bridge, a super hotel and the Beavers have new digs? seriously?
if this was Dan Saltzman we would be calling for his head...
also, the whole thing about the making out with a minor... he is an elected official, supposedly has wanted to be since he was a kid... he knows the rules of elected officials... if you do something that can be perceived as wrong, you WILL get caught for it... even if you don't think it is wrong, someone will, and they will nail you for it... ignoring that some might find making out with a minor offensive makes him either Portland's biggest ego or Portland's biggest idiot...
Right on, Stu. The only person talking sense in here.
Amusing that people are using any foreclosure/policy/budget issues in any context regarding the recall discussion. That's why elections exist. You don't like his politics, vote him out next time.
But hey, carry on anyway. When do we get to the part where you tie a rock to his leg, throw him in a lake, and see if he floats?
It's not just "lying". it's statutory rape. Criminal mis-conduct also includes Conspiracy to cover up the deed. Ruiz is complicit. Sam the Mentor?
Best case scenario, pay your legal bills, sell your house, step down (or be recalled) and leave town. Take your Amy with you.
"Every single thing Sam said about Ball remains true''
Stu, I disagree. Ball brought to light rumors that were created by Sam himself (his own advisers were suspicious and knew it looked bad).
Sam allowed Katz, Leonard and the media to vilify Ball when in fact, by Sam's own admission he was attracted to/involved with with Beau while he was still 17.
Beau apologized to Ball for what happened to him due to the lies that Sam encouraged him to tell, even though Beau wanted to tell the truth at the time (makes him a bigger man than Sam).
Sam eliminated a potential opponent with his lies and the ensuing smear campaign against Ball.
Ball had every right to bring to light these particular rumors (they involved the possibility of illegal behavior), and if you don't think Sam would have done the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot you're pretty naive.
The truth would have eventually come out, one way or another, and trashing Ball from bringing them to light is disingenuous. You can't blame the messenger just because you don't like the message.
Sam and Randy owe Ball a public apology, unless there is something I missed in all the reporting I read. If you have this information, please share it.
First up, the easy bit: there's no way Randy can be blamed for anything on that one, he was lied to by Sam as well and based on those lies said things in good faith.
I disagree with you though on one major thing. If Ball was hearing rumors about Sam & Beau having underage sex, he should have reported them to the police to investigate. Instead, he spread the rumor to as many media outlets as he could, despite having no proof that anything had happened. There's no way you can tell me he had the right to do that, or that it wasn't a deliberate smear campaign by him; if he had honorable intentions he would have gone to the cops not the press. He's just another sleazy do-anything-for-power wannabe politician - exactly what people keep accusing Sam of being...
I disagree with you though on one major thing. If Ball was hearing rumors about Sam & Beau having underage sex, he should have reported them to the police to investigate. "Instead, he spread the rumor to as many media outlets as he could, despite having no proof that anything had happened. There's no way you can tell me he had the right to do that, or that it wasn't a deliberate smear campaign by him; if he had honorable intentions he would have gone to the cops not the press. He's just another sleazy do-anything-for-power wannabe politician - exactly what people keep accusing Sam of being..."
pdxrocks The motives of why the story was broken to the media is irrelevant to the facts of what Sam Adams admitted he did. You are attempting to smear Bill Ball to divert attention from Sam Adams
Stu, if a person vilifies another person in the media based on false information, he can and should apologize to that person for attacking him mistakenly. As I recall, Randy told Ball he would never work in Portland politics. That was pretty severe and intimidating and resulted in Ball being blacklisted.
Secondly, you're buying into the propaganda put forth by Sam and perpetuated by Randy, Vera and the media, that Ball was out to smear Sam. That was Samâs opinion, but where is the proof? Where are Bob Ball's derogatory words? Here's a quote from Ball from the WW:
âIn July, an individual close to Sam Adams told me facts that a reasonable person would conclude raised concerns about a relationship with a minor. As a reserve police officer, I am a public official. In an effort to understand my obligations with regard to this information, I consulted an attorney, Mary Overgaard, a lawyer experienced in police matters. Ms. Overgaard advised me to inform a public official about what I had been told. In early August, I informed Randy Leonard, a friend of Adamsâ and mine, of what I had been told. In a later conversation with Vera Katz, I acknowledged that there were rumors about Adams, but I did not reveal any details to Vera Katz. Any story here is not about me.â
Sam is an admitted liar and only told the truth when backed against the wall. He also has the reputation of being a vindictive bully. If heâd heard similar rumors about a political opponent he would have brought them to light as well.
I've never met Bob Ball and havenât heard negative things about his reputation other than those put forth by Sam and his followers. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this matter - Sam has proven himself untrustworthy. Ball didn't make up rumors, he talked about them to Randy and Vera, and the rumors were true. Sam did have a relationship with a minor, illegal or not.
Thirdly, I can't imagine anyone going to the police with this sort of rumor. Ball didnât have any evidence â he said heâd heard stories. What would the police do with that? I would think youâd need some hard evidence or a complaint from the victimâs parents before the police would get involved. He acted on the advice of an attorney, although he definitely talked to the wrong people in this case. That doesnât change the fact that Sam was indeed pursuing a 17 year old and lied about it to everyone until he was busted. And in the process he destroyed a personâs reputation and political career to save his own skin.
Lastly, if Ball was indeed a "sleazy do-anything-for-power wannabe politician", did Sam need to stoop to his level in order to defend himself?
wow. I paid less for my house, and it's much nicer. Time to hit the bathroom and troll for interns.
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_…
My ass.
I bet you were real sad to break this story, Matt. Too sad to even bitch about not getting all the credit for it. So very, very sad for the travails of the Mayor, and these trying economic times.
Fuck the mayor.
You should be able to afford a $900 payment when you make $118K a year.
As for the legal trouble, just don't make out with 17 year olds in city hall.
Don't go away mad, Sam. Just go away.
Market Value $212,980.00
Assessed Value $77,410.00
Taxes (2008)
Property Taxes $1,643.79
Year Built 1924
Foundation Type Concrete
Roof Cover Type Composition
Heating/AC Type Forced Air, CENTRAL AIR CONDITIONING
All the information is public record.
But man, Sam is not making it easy.
I *want* to like Sam, but he's really not having a good streak of luck lately.
(Disclaimer: of course, if he's found guilty of breaking the law, my sympathy for him would end instantaneously; but innocent until proven guilty and all that...)
Why lying is while serving the public is bad reason 101: You might have to hire expensive lawyers due to a certain legal investigation over your lies. This might cause you to not be able to pay your mortgage. Lesson? Lying is stupid.
Also, due to the support of Adams and the Auditor's office, the City made it very easy last year to find out contact info for property ownership: www.portlandmaps.com. Just type in 2121 N McClellan. Or alternately, one can just hop on over to the County Tax Assessor's office and ask them since it is all public record. And the phone number on this foreclosure list is for Northwest Trustee Services, not Adams. Duh.
There may also be a subset of homosexual population that simply doesn't want this man tarnishing the progress already made for gay equality.
My mortgage is 50% higher.
I pay all our family bills every month, even with only one income in this recession.
I am EMBARASSED that the mayor of my city can't take care of less than $1K/month for his housing. When he misses a payment, he COSTS US ALL money in collection costs. These will be passed down to those of us who do WHATEVER WE CAN to pay our mortgage each month.
Get your house straightened, Mr. Adams. Like NOW.
"In January 2003, property records show, he bought two properties for $130,000 each:
2121 N. McClellan, which appears to be his primary residence and the property next door at 2131 N. McClellan, which the Portland Mercury reported today is in foreclosure.
In August 2006, when the property market was still riding high, Adams â who makes $118,144 a year now as mayor â bought another nearby triplex at 2031 N. McClellan for $349,000."
http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/fi…
There are several camps who want Sam out. As was pointed out in a Mercury article not long ago. I'd summarize them as:
a) people annoyed that he lied (including Jasun Wurster). This strikes me as the most valid reason to be upset.
b) people who have always opposed his policies. They lost the election and haven't got over it yet.
c) people who have more recently come to oppose his policies. I'm not convinced this group is as large as they claim it to be, since I strongly suspect many fall into one of the other categories, but give them the benefit of the doubt. They're the ones trying to abuse the recall process, instead of waiting until the next election to vote him out.
d) homophobes.
e) people accusing him, without proof (or indeed evidence), of pedophilia.
All the evidence I've seen (on this and other comment sites) is that there's a huge crossover between the last two groups. And very few people who are in e) but not in d). It's these people that are causing the legal problems, not the first three groups.
The homophobes aren't Sam's only enemies right now, but they're the ones I blame for this...
That's a novel defense: "The homophobic bigots made him mismanage his $118k salary."
This is basically a personal issue for him, though it does raise eyebrows about his responsibility over the city's budget.
Wraparound coverage.
The unanswered question is, how much have Adam's lawyers cost to date to guide him through the Kroger investigation (and don't think you'd go in there without a lawyer either).
Ok, look. At the very worst, Sam had sex with someone a few months shy of his 18th birthday. Say what you will about the illegality of that, and what it says for a 40 year old to be checking out a 17 year old, but nobody can say that this is anywhere close to "pedophilia," which typically is associated with sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children.
Stu, I'm concerned about the possible pedophilia, but I'm not a homophobe. Just because you can't get your head around it doesn't mean it's not possible.
Kaufmann was unable to shed any light on whether the mayor in fact owns other properties.
If anyone wants to say how they can make their payments on half his salary, while being investigated by the AG, then we can talk. But until then, a lot of you guys are missing the point...
I blame people for the problems they create themselves.
Look at the comment between yours and mine, people seem to be confused about the story, the story here isn't that he can't make 10% of his paycheck to his mortgage, the story here is lawyers are expensive. Did these people not read it to the end? Are they just really dumb? Both? Quite frankly I think those comments are actually more interesting than the story itself, (since I already knew that lawyers are expensive.)
"The term pedophile has its origins in ancient Greek as a synonym to pederast; that is, a man who falls in love with adolescent boys.
However, it has acquired many different meanings in different parts of the world, and among different segments of society. Researchers and clinicians often use the term in inconsistent ways:
North American researchers who have extensively studied adult attraction to minors limit pedophilia to the presence of enduring preferential feelings of sexual attraction for prepubescent children, not for adolescents. These feelings must be stronger than those for adolescents or adults, regardless of actual sexual behavior. Pedophiles may or may not act on these feelings.
Some researchers, especially those in Europe, extend pedophilia to include feelings for adolescents."
I'm fond of Europe, and use the word pedophile as they do. And some of us can be totally disgusted about being lied to without thinking his personal crimes were so bad. Pedophiles have contributed to society and should not be categorically demonized; there is evidence that DaVinci liked boys. Enough with all the certainty about the morality or immorality of other people's personal lives, the lying is the unacceptable part, politically speaking.
If this happened to Randy, I'll bet he'd just kick the bankers in the teeth, like he was breaking into a burning building.
If he is such a "great person" that is being persecuted why is no one loaning him 5K? That is only $10 per person that showed up at that stupid rally...Storm, Thomas, Dan...anyone?!
Then he lied again to his colleague when he stated that he had no more surprises.
Then he brought sex into his worklife as he made out in a Publicly funded bathroom.
There are so many lies that any semblance of trust for this man has vanished. This lack of fiduciary trust is the icing on the cake. This probably will go national media, and again we are the embarrassment of the country. We now have a broken state (foodstamps for 1/6 of Oregonians,) City (Portland laying off significant city employees.) and improper economic debates (stadiums, hotels, and pro soccer, get fucking real, ) we're facing Oakland bankrupcy it's looking like here.
Get him out of here. Do want Vera.
I think you would like it to be the point of this post.
Awesome. Now THAT is so Portland.
But even D got my point, (way before I posted it too.) Are you suggesting that Sam was having trouble making his house payment before he got into legal trouble? I think you just don't want to admit that when someone has significant legal bills that house payments may be lower on the list...
"Posted by alan cordle"
Thanks Alan, I nominate that for snark of the day!
Props to the best journalist in PDX for breaking shit, once again!
Okay, a third vote for somewhere in Lents. Near Sia's house.
find another person to comment on the Mayor's situation. Fred's perspective on anything Adams is way too skewed.
As for sex related arguments, please, spare me- this has nothing to do with what pot roast or the age of the pot roast he parks his dick in.
This does has everything to do with explaining 4 billion dollar albatrosses over the Columbia and stadiums for rich kid's hobbies while a fifth of local families need help from a food bank, however. The man's judgment is hideous, period. This is just another example.
Personal bankrupcies are wiped off the record after 7 years. If he had good credit after the declaration, with 1 118K salary he could get credit extended easily, especially in credit happy USA for the past 10 years.
I wonder where are all of the pedophiles that usually defend Sam Adams. Has the Portland Police rounded up all of them?
(Oh, yeah, everyone with an IQ above 80 would have thought it)
Plus, Sam himself didn't write the budget. He simply approved it.
Can you at least admit you're starting to feel just a little embarrassed defending this guy? I mean, he's kind of a train wreck. He's not rewarding your faith very well.
He's made more mistakes than I'd like. Are those mistakes bad enough for me to want him out, after balancing the good as well as the bad? No. Do I think he's been good for the city, and far better than any of the other candidates would have been (and far better than any of the other potential successors - Bragdon, Fritz, Dozono, Leonard - would be)? Yes, absolutely. I'd still vote for him over any of them.
I also think that people should be defended against unfair accusations even if you disagree with them on everything else, rather than (as a lot of people on here seem to do) making my mind up on him in general terms and then throwing everything you can at him hoping something will stick. Hell, I've even defended Cheney on single issues before now...
The fact that the definition of the word pedophile is even being discussed in an article about the mayor is yet another "thank you, Sam" moment.
This has nothing to do with the foreclosure crisis; the mayors earnings to mortgage ratio is too high. It has everything to do with self-imposed legal issues that are requiring the mayor to pay for legal representation.
As for "character assassination" - sorry, but Ball deserved everything he got. He tried to spread untrue (unless proven otherwise, which they haven't been yet) rumors about Sam having sex with an underage boy. With no proof. Every single thing Sam said about Ball remains true, and the allegations made by Ball were an unfair and unjustified attempt at character assassination. The whole "Ball was hard done by and has been proved right" argument ignores inconvenient things like facts...
become a liar over making out with a minor - worse
if that was it... ok... we just figure he has poor judgment and ask that he pass everything by city council before approving it...
add to that
car wrecks, huge bridges, unneeded stadiums, hotels we cant pay for, staff members who appear to have gotten their job as a pay off, former staff members suing him, late on a few mortgages, etc, etc, etc, etc... is there ANYONE that thinks Portland will come out of our economic crisis better if we have a super bridge, a super hotel and the Beavers have new digs? seriously?
if this was Dan Saltzman we would be calling for his head...
also, the whole thing about the making out with a minor... he is an elected official, supposedly has wanted to be since he was a kid... he knows the rules of elected officials... if you do something that can be perceived as wrong, you WILL get caught for it... even if you don't think it is wrong, someone will, and they will nail you for it... ignoring that some might find making out with a minor offensive makes him either Portland's biggest ego or Portland's biggest idiot...
I am so sick of certain people saying that Sam Adams is being targeted and so on, just because he's gay.
Portland elected him knowing he was gay. So explain that away.
I could care less about his sexuality. It's the character of the man I have a problem with. The whole "bait-and-switch" and lies since he took office.
Amusing that people are using any foreclosure/policy/budget issues in any context regarding the recall discussion. That's why elections exist. You don't like his politics, vote him out next time.
But hey, carry on anyway. When do we get to the part where you tie a rock to his leg, throw him in a lake, and see if he floats?
Best case scenario, pay your legal bills, sell your house, step down (or be recalled) and leave town. Take your Amy with you.
Stu, I disagree. Ball brought to light rumors that were created by Sam himself (his own advisers were suspicious and knew it looked bad).
Sam allowed Katz, Leonard and the media to vilify Ball when in fact, by Sam's own admission he was attracted to/involved with with Beau while he was still 17.
Beau apologized to Ball for what happened to him due to the lies that Sam encouraged him to tell, even though Beau wanted to tell the truth at the time (makes him a bigger man than Sam).
Sam eliminated a potential opponent with his lies and the ensuing smear campaign against Ball.
Ball had every right to bring to light these particular rumors (they involved the possibility of illegal behavior), and if you don't think Sam would have done the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot you're pretty naive.
The truth would have eventually come out, one way or another, and trashing Ball from bringing them to light is disingenuous. You can't blame the messenger just because you don't like the message.
Sam and Randy owe Ball a public apology, unless there is something I missed in all the reporting I read. If you have this information, please share it.
I disagree with you though on one major thing. If Ball was hearing rumors about Sam & Beau having underage sex, he should have reported them to the police to investigate. Instead, he spread the rumor to as many media outlets as he could, despite having no proof that anything had happened. There's no way you can tell me he had the right to do that, or that it wasn't a deliberate smear campaign by him; if he had honorable intentions he would have gone to the cops not the press. He's just another sleazy do-anything-for-power wannabe politician - exactly what people keep accusing Sam of being...
pdxrocks The motives of why the story was broken to the media is irrelevant to the facts of what Sam Adams admitted he did. You are attempting to smear Bill Ball to divert attention from Sam Adams
Secondly, you're buying into the propaganda put forth by Sam and perpetuated by Randy, Vera and the media, that Ball was out to smear Sam. That was Samâs opinion, but where is the proof? Where are Bob Ball's derogatory words? Here's a quote from Ball from the WW:
âIn July, an individual close to Sam Adams told me facts that a reasonable person would conclude raised concerns about a relationship with a minor. As a reserve police officer, I am a public official. In an effort to understand my obligations with regard to this information, I consulted an attorney, Mary Overgaard, a lawyer experienced in police matters. Ms. Overgaard advised me to inform a public official about what I had been told. In early August, I informed Randy Leonard, a friend of Adamsâ and mine, of what I had been told. In a later conversation with Vera Katz, I acknowledged that there were rumors about Adams, but I did not reveal any details to Vera Katz. Any story here is not about me.â
Sam is an admitted liar and only told the truth when backed against the wall. He also has the reputation of being a vindictive bully. If heâd heard similar rumors about a political opponent he would have brought them to light as well.
I've never met Bob Ball and havenât heard negative things about his reputation other than those put forth by Sam and his followers. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this matter - Sam has proven himself untrustworthy. Ball didn't make up rumors, he talked about them to Randy and Vera, and the rumors were true. Sam did have a relationship with a minor, illegal or not.
Thirdly, I can't imagine anyone going to the police with this sort of rumor. Ball didnât have any evidence â he said heâd heard stories. What would the police do with that? I would think youâd need some hard evidence or a complaint from the victimâs parents before the police would get involved. He acted on the advice of an attorney, although he definitely talked to the wrong people in this case. That doesnât change the fact that Sam was indeed pursuing a 17 year old and lied about it to everyone until he was busted. And in the process he destroyed a personâs reputation and political career to save his own skin.
Lastly, if Ball was indeed a "sleazy do-anything-for-power wannabe politician", did Sam need to stoop to his level in order to defend himself?
No, seriously, thank you. That has got to be the best description of events out here.