The fact is that land, and land use is going to determined almost totally for our whole country within the next ten years. Folks that fight "density", and advanced planning tactics that keep people moving and living with fewer vehicles, shorter commutes to services, and mixed-zone usages are not understanding this. Clackamas (where I currently live), won't be the same 5 or ten years from now, almost no space in our country will. But, paying attention, and supporting rail, being intentional about siting and building will better shape what the community looks like. For the record to the "portland creep" folks, it's a lot more pleasant traversing Portland than it is Clackamas--and the horror of being a pedestrian on 82nd--even for 20 minutes--would aptly demonstrate that to anyone. Crime? Clackamasers, you wanna talk about crime sprawl? Gimme a break, like every other of the young men living here look like they just dropped off the meth truck, with their domestic violence badge in hand!