A hardy crew of undocumented immigrants and their supporters are have been trudging through the rain for days, walking from Portland to Salem this week to rally support for a plan to make it easier for immigrants to get drivers licenses.
Under a 2008 law change, Oregon now requires proof that you’re a citizen to get a drivers license. The law prevents about 1,000 people a month from getting drivers licenses, according to the Oregon Department of Transportation. A bill to change the drivers license rules back again got a hearing in Salem during the last legislative session, but didn’t go anywhere. Last spring, Governor Kitzhaber promised he would reexamine the issue and now groups like the Northwest Immigrant Youth Alliance and Oregon Dream Activists are pressuring Kitzhaber to issue an executive order reverting Oregon to its pre-2008 license rules.
I talked with walker Adriana Limon, 24, as she took a break in Woodburn, about 19 miles of the activists’ final destination in Salem. Limon says her family used to live here in Portland, but recently moved up to Washington for the sole purpose of getting IDs—unlike Oregon, Washington doesn’t require a social security number to get a license. “It’s a big change and it’s pretty sad. I had to leave my friends, everything,” says Limon.
This was not the most scenic weekend to stroll from Portland; it poured rain, as the immigrant group walked five or so hours both days on their route south. “Yesterday was really bad, the wind was really hard so we got wet,” says Limon.
You can follow along on their soggy walk via Facebook.
this stuff is just over my head: why would we want to give licenses to illegal aliens? how is that ‘not fair’??
at least one reason, according to the linked aclu article, is because if we don’t allow illegal immigrants to obtain licenses, then more people will be driving without insurance and a proper education in the rules of the road. i agree — that probably would happen.
so what? so they’re willfully breaking yet another law now, but it’s our fault because we didn’t allow them to side-step the first one they broke?
someone please explain why i’m an asshole for having these sentiments.
f.y.i.: i’m half-mexican and spent my first 20 years living right across the border from one of the most impoverished, crime-ridden, shitty-ass mexican cities ever — a city so fucked that i, too, would try to immigrate to the states, legally or not, if i was unlucky enough to have been born over there — but never would i ever assume that i ‘deserved’ to enjoy the spoils of u.s. citizenship without actually becoming a legal citizen…..and paying taxes.
and why do we choose to continue using such silly euphemisms like ‘undocumented immigrant’ in place of the more accurate ‘ILLEGAL immigrant’??
@Human – Ok, so imagine yourself as a pedestrian who is hit by a car.
1) If it’s an immigrant driving under current law, then they’re driving way, leaving your ass to die in the streets. They lack a ODL, so they lack insurance, and if the immigrant is caught they’re going to be deported. Hence, your ass dies.
2) If it’s an immigrant who has a valid ODL there is a chance that they have insurance, and that they fully comply with the law otherwise. Meaning you might have an ambulance on the way, and you might be able to sue them or their insurance company.
So: which do you want, 1 or 2?
As far as breaking “yet another law”, do you smoke pot? Does this mean you also molest children? After all, that’s “yet another law”, and if you’re violating one… Do you see the fallacy of this argument?
Immigration, “illegal” or “undocumented” is a contrived and manufactured issue. Immigrants are no more responsible for crime, or responsible for wasting welfare, or raping white women, or voter fraud – then any other population of this country. If you look back through the history of America, you’ll see that immigrants have been blamed for all of these things (and more) for 200+ years without real evidence. Plus, you might notice that all the heat is on Mexican immigrants (not immigrants from India or Pakistan who are legitimately taking skilled-college jobs), this is a part of a long history of anti-Mexican racism that helps rationalize why it’s OK to pay a Mexican $3 an hour, but you have to pay Americans $10 an hour. We did the same thing to the Irish and Catholics, then the Jews and Germans. The real way to stop Mexican immigration is to just stop fucking with Mexico and let their people and country become prosperous on their own – but the American government keeps Mexico poor, we stoke the violence, and we exploit their labor. As long as we demonize people (like yourself) as not-American, we will never see the utility of solving the problems with Mexico. If we saw Mexicans as equals, then the violence in Mexico would be deplorable, and inequality unacceptable.
I hope that helps –you’re not an “asshole” for thinking this way, the vast majority of Americans think the same way because there is profit in making you think this way. Now, please go look up Edward Bernays, he’ll give you the technicalities of HOW they did this, and have a nice day.
#2, for certain.
when i said ‘breaking yet another law’, i simply meant that they have, at the very least, been living here illegally and thus have broken that law in addition to driving uninsured and without a license. this we know for sure. anything else is pure assumption which, i agree, would be a stupid and unfounded argument to make.
i don’t disagree with you that immigrants, legal or not, aren’t any more responsible for crime, etc. than any other group of citizens here.
the mexican thing: citing hispanic immigrants as examples in debates such as these is simply that — there’s no sneaky implication that they are better or worse, or whatever, than any other group of immigrants, at least not in my arguments.
plus, the person quoted in the article is hispanic. and, along with latin america being right next door, the fact is that the majority of immigrants to this country these days, legal or not, are of hispanic origin (though, in the last few years, asians have taken a slight lead…..but, when looking at the numbers of *illegal* immigrants, hispanics are still at the top).
glad to know that you don’t think me to be an asshole, but rather a mindless, spoon-fed automaton, believing or disbelieving in whatever is most profitable to my hidden programmers. i wouldn’t have it any other way.
sometimes ignorance IS bliss.
you have a nice day as well, sir. always a pleasure.
@human – “there’s no sneaky implication that they are better or worse…at least not in my arguments”
Excuse me, you did refer to Mexicans as “most impoverished, crime-ridden, shitty-ass” & “unlucky” for the virtue of being born in their country – but even you if do not earnestly believe that Mexican immigrants are better/worse than other immigrants, the simple fact is that most Americans do feel this, and certainly Americans treat Mexican immigrants this way (note: by “Mexican” I mean “Hispanic” and “South American” and “brown people” all rolled into one ambiguous term). Compounding this, “illegal immigrant” is used almost always as a euphemism for Mexican immigrant – we can make cognitive arguments that you or I didn’t mean to consciously imply this, but the vast majority of Americans use “illegal immigrants” to demonize particularly Mexican immigrants. So just to reiterate: it is this demonization of Mexicans, used as a subtle form of racism, that Americans use to justify the inequality of Mexicans in this society.
I think you probably have internal conflictions with this notion, which is why you asked, “someone please explain why i’m an asshole for having these sentiments”, then you proceeded to sound-off like any other two-bit moron from OregonLive. The reason you think this way is the same reason they think their way: your thoughts are being manipulated, and in your case it is in a clear contradiction of your own self-interest (a half-Mexican hating Mexican), you can’t reconcile it, and so you feel like an “asshole.” The solution is exceedingly simple: don’t be an asshole, and just accept people for who they are, as they stand in front of you, regardless of where they come from and what forms they’ve filled out with the government.
I was hanging out with some Mexican friends the other night, and one turns to me to say, “Cause I’m Mexican, there’s nothing I love more than hating other Mexicans.” So, maybe I’m wrong.
Then why do we have a southern border at all, FA?
And we are most definitely talking about illegal immigrants here, not immigrants.
What is the distinction there? Do you honestly believe most Americans worry about legal immigrants coming to this country? Legal immigrants are properly identified and wait their turn in line. We then know if they have a criminal background and what their intentions are while they await citizenship. Why is that important? You know why. So why do you want to give a privilege like driving to people who have already broken the law to come here? What other laws will they break? Remember John Zupan? It doesn’t make sense.
I welcome people from everywhere in the world as long as they come here lawfully and continue to do well while they are here. Not steal identities to commit fraud of every imaginable kind. Not come here and pervert an already overwhelmed system. Not to become a mule for drug gangs. Not to become a vicious gang member. Not to exploit American culture or way of life. Not to take take take when they don’t offer anything in return aside from cheap, tax-free labor just to send their earnings back to Mexico to continue the trend. We do not know who these people are, where they came from or why they are here. The father of that high-school student getting straight A’s could be a very dangerous person. Maybe he is a fugitive. None of us citizens know.
I understand the bleeding heart mentality toward the kids and we should have something concrete and fair regarding them. But to reward criminals for passing everyone else in line and breaking the law (and likely more in their clandestine lives) is not fair to the others who go through the process legally. We have laws for a reason. Without laws and proper enforcement you have corruption and chaos. Sound familiar? Look at the border towns.
Our government should close the borders (Mexico AND Canada) completely and also pass laws that are fair toward American citizens first. Like E-verify. Americans shouldn’t have to compete with nationals from another country for anything like employment during a horrible recession. And it isn’t racist or unfair to close the border and expect people to go through the process legally or don’t come at all.
One last note. Look up the story about Hezbollah in Mexico. It’s readily available from different media outlets both liberal and conservative.
God you’re a moron, SJR. I’m not even reading your comment, I’m going to go play with my penis, because it will be a more productive exercise than reading your moronic bullshit.
Posted by stjohnsrules on 10/29/2012 at 3:43 PM
Look at that, Racist McWingnut pukes out another diatribe that is full of half-truths, lies, & hyperbole.
“Hezbollah in Mexico” I bet you think there are still commies hiding in the trashcan too.
Racist? Really?
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/09/1…
Chock full of half-truths, lies and hyperbole. From San Francisco, that conservative, racist city.
It’s funny how you guys have to call me names instead of actually proving me wrong.
Laaaaaaaaaaaazy.
I’ve heard them all from you pricks and I still burn you every fucking time. You pseudo-intellectual ass chasms cannot possibly compete. That’s right. I said ass chasms. Google it but you won’t find it anywhere. Know why? I’m the real deal. You? Ass chasms.
And fidelity, you ain’t shit until you get a basement-dwelling scumbag to change his name to something similar as your own and follow you around like a Downsy puppy.
That is game.
fidelity:
you’re reaching.
i didn’t refer to mexicans as “…the most impoverished, crime-ridden, shitty-ass” & “unlucky” for the virtue of being born in their country…” — i said that about the CITY across the border from where i grew up, NOT the entire country or its citizens…..reread it.
(the city in question is juarez — it’s fucked.)
as for the rest of what you slobbered out: no, i don’t hate mexicans — i don’t hate anyone based on what they look like, the language they speak, or whence they came. my original comment, in a nutshell, was simply that i think everyone living in the country should be properly documented (i.e., accountable for their actions).
unlike you, i DO believe that the government has a place here — anarchy just won’t work.
Actually, all of you guys are foolish assholes shouting into an empty room.
I provided my hypothesis on SJR over at the story, “What Do You Think About Modifying the Electoral College?” – where I wrote that I think SJR is just trying to distinguish himself from the rest of Portlanders, because deep down inside he feels alienated or otherwise hates Portlanders. Therefore, SJR identifies as separate, talks about how separate he is, and spews noxious bullshit that is intended to contradict a general consensus. This makes SJR feel distinguished from a group, which stokes his ego, as he generally detests the group. If he were trying to be productive in the market place of ideas, SJR would question the consensus by providing insight, not rejecting everything outright.
There is no logical or rational reason to engage SJR in a conversation: it is pointless, even counter-productive. It is always his intent to be opposite of the prevailing crowd, to write incendiary comments in order to deal with his own insecurities, and the more he feels distinguished the more his ego is satisfied, and thus he will come back for more. SJR knows that he will just be prevented from satisfying his own ego if he just tries to be disruptive, so instead he tries to bait people into bat-shit-crazy conversations that never end.
Oh, I see. So, when you wrote that you think a city is a bunch of poor criminals, you didn’t mean the people in the city, and you certainly aren’t making judgments about people if “whence they came” is Juarez. Gotcha.
I provided comments on the role of government in this, and it had nothing to do with anarchy.
You are dead wrong, fidelity, and now you are coming off as a know-it-all jackass. You don’t know me and apparently you are severely confused as to what I’m about. I strongly suggest you consider that the people that I respond to here (Paul Constant and liberal extremists, mostly) are writing the incendiary bullshit, not me. You just can’t stand the fact that I tell the truth, whether you like it or not, and for that, you want me to stop posting and go away.
Why is that? People can see my posts. They can do their due diligence and counter my comments but the main response I get here is from liberal sheep who think they are being so “rad” for calling me names. All because I’m different. Only my difference doesn’t suit you. So people like you attack and try to make me out to be someone I’m not. It’s almost like you’re a redneck. Don’t know what it is? Git it an’ kill it!
Why do you do that? You can engage me in a conversation. Just don’t start out by insulting me or you will be clowned upon until you act right. Try debunking my claims that the border should be closed and tell me why you believe an open border policy is going to work. I will give you my side. Other than that, we are just pissin’ in the wind. Our interaction can go either way. My hope is that it goes forward in a positive direction.
TO BE CLEAR, if you’re an illegal immigrant your presence in the United States is a CIVIL infraction and your illegal presence alone is NOT subject to CRIMINAL penalties. So by being in the country illegally, you’re an ILLEGAL in the same way a driver who speeds is an ILLEGAL; that is, you’ve both committed CIVIL violations, punishable by CIVIL penalties.
If you’re like half of the undocumented population, you entered the country legally and overstayed a student/tourist visa or a border crossing card. In this case, your illegal status is NOT a violation of the U.S. criminal code (i.e. immigration authorities cannot send you to prison ONLY for being here without authorization). However, you are in violation of CIVIL immigration laws and can be deported.
If you’re like the other half of the undocumented population and entered the country illegally, then you’ve violated 8 U.S.C. §1325(a) of the U.S. Code. Again, this is a CIVIL infraction and punishable by civil penalties, including fines, jail time, and deportation. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1…)
I hoped that cleared things up.
Just one question, SC, how do you know those statistics are accurate when these people are “undocumented”? Seems like an impossible guessing game to me.
At least when immigrants come here legally, we know a great deal about them beforehand. That Pakistani engineer? He wants to work for Intel. That Chinese scientist? She wants to cure cancer. That French artist? He wants to live in New York and contribute something beautiful to the world.
Illegal immigrants? Fuck if we know. These people live clandestine lives and until they are properly documented they should either leave peacefully or be removed by force through deportation. Then they can come back and contribute in a positive way, all above ground and in plain sight where it is much more difficult to exploit America and commit crime. That is the reason we have immigration laws. Just because the Obama administration runs around the law for votes doesn’t mean these laws aren’t important or worth enforcing.
[Comment pulled – Terms of Use violation.]
Dear Blogtown,
Don’t be racist.
Sincerely,
The Management.