Dear Savage Love Readers,
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Dan
I'm a married gay man in Southern California. I also have a boy who has his own partner. Both my boy and his partner used to live nearby. But in August they moved to Seattle. The âwhyâ of their move continues to bother me. They didn't move for a job, or to be closer to family, or any of the other reasons people...
Dear Savage Love Readers,Â
This is the âMiniâ Savage Love. To read the âMaxiâ Savage Loveâthe full, unabridged column, with more Qs and more Asâplease subscribe at Savage.Love. Magnum Subs get the full column and archives and the extra-long Magnum Savage Lovecast, plus bonus podcasts and live events for just 40 bucks a year. There's also a discounted Sub if you're just interested in the column each week.
Thank you all, and I hope to see you at Savage.Love!Â
DanÂ
I'm a married gay man in Southern California. I also have a boy who has his own partner. Both my boy and his partner used to live nearby. But in August they moved to Seattle. The âwhyâ of their move continues to bother me. They didn't move for a job, or to be closer to family, or any of the other reasons people normally relocate. My boy said it was a combination of the weather and people. The problem, as I see it, is that both my boy and his partner have introverted tendenciesâthey donât go out muchâso I donât see how the weather or people really make a difference.
The bigger issue is that my boy has tried to âpimpâ his partner on me throughout our relationship. I usually rebuffed his suggestions, but one night I gave in. His partner and I started to kiss and feel each other up, and it was fine. The weird thingâthe thing that troubles me to this dayâwas how my boy reacted. He watched us with this bizarre look in his eyes, like he was really getting off on watching the two of us go at it, like some creepy voyeur. His expression freaked me out so much that I ended things and gave some dumb excuse. I recently had an encounter with another person who had a similar experience with my boy. He described how he would cam with my boy and how my boy would always bring his partner in.
My boy had expressed to me on multiple occasions how his partner cannot find sexual partners on his own. I think the real reason my boy moved was to find a new dating pool in the hopes of eventually finding a match for his partner. If my thoughts are correct, then my boy did a horrible thing to our relationship. I don't know much about cuckolds and I'm looking for advice. How do you have a relationship with a boy when that boy's sole focus is the sexual satisfaction of their partner?
Confused About Ladâs Departure And Deceit
Moving to Seattle for the âweatherâ seems a little counterintuitive. But I can see why a pair of introverts might prefer gray Seattle, where I live, to sunny Southern California. When itâs nice outside, you feel obligated to go outside. But itâs never nice outside in Seattle. We have a rainy season that stretches from November through July (too wet to go outside) and now, thanks to catastrophic climate change, we have a wildfire season that stretches from August through October (too smokey to go outside). So, looking out a window in Seattle you never think, âI should go for a walk and risk a chance encounter with another human being,â but rather, âI should go back in the basement and keep playing video games.â
As for the people here in Seattle⌠even the most extroverted newcomers complain about the âSeattle Freeze.â But if your boy and his partner are just looking for fuckbuddies, well, theyâre in luck. The dick up here is damp nine months a year and tastes like smoke the other three, but thereâs plenty to go around.
As for the host of other issues you raiseâŚ
Look, Iâm not your boy, CALDAD, so I canât tell you exactly whatâs going on in his head. But I do feel confident saying heâs not your boy anymore. Not only did he move away (with his partner) and leave you all alone in Southern California (with your husband), CALDAD, but you seem to hold him in contemptâcontempt for his motives, his kinks, and his partnerâand contempt is a hard place to come back from. So, since you arenât in a relationship with him anymore, you donât have to worry about making this relationship work. (Iâm sorry if that seems harsh, CALDAD, but better to hear that from me than from the commenters.)
So, is your ex-boy a cuckold? He could be. Based on your description of his behavior the night you hooked up with his partner, it certainly sounds like he gets off on watching his partner get fucked by other guys. Itâs also possible that he shares the dick heâs getting elsewhere with his primary partner. Thereâs nothing wrong with being a cuckold, of course, and thereâs nothing wrong with âpimpingâ a partner out⌠so long as 1. your partner wants to be pimped out and 2. youâre not pressuring other guys to do things with your partner that they donât wanna do.
But if your ex-boy was only interested in you for his partner, CALDAD, he was certainly playing the long game. Establishing an ongoing D/s relationship with a married man when all you really want is someone to fuck your partner in front of you⌠that seems like an awful lot of effort when Grindr is full of men who would be up for fucking your ex-boyâs boyfriend while he watched without him having to go through the trouble of entering into a long-term relationship first. Setting you up with his partner may have been an interest, but I donât think itâs fair to say it was your ex-boyâs sole interest.
And honestly, CALDAD, I find myself wondering what you expected from your ex-boy when you started to fuck his partner in front of him. Did you think he was going sit there impassively, with a look of total indifference on his face, not feeling anything in particular? If so, CALDAD, that wasnât a very realistic expectation on your part. And I suspect if he had sat there looking bored or indifferent, you wouldâve found that just as weird and off-putting. If I was fucking some guyâs boyfriend in front of him, CALDAD, I would hope that guy got off on it. Hell, I would call it off if the guy whose boyfriend I was fucking didnât react like some creepy voyeur.
Frankly, CALDAD, I donât think your ex-boy did a terrible thing. He was honestly into you, thatâs why he was your boy, and he wanted to share his partner with you. If you didnât want to fuck his partner, you shouldâve continued to say no. Once you started to fuck his partner, you shouldâve wanted (and expected) your ex-boy to enjoy the show.
P.S. On the off chance that CALDADâs ex-boy is reading this: Welcome to Seattle! Cuckold or pimp, both or neither, you need to be clearer with your sex partners (in person, online, wherever) about what youâre doing, what you want them to do, and why you want them to do it. There are plenty of guys out there into threesomes, cuckolding, and guys who are pimping out their partners, so thereâs no need to be a manipulative-by-default creep, which is how you risk coming across when you arenât clear about what youâre doing (sharing your partner) and why (youâre a cuck or your partner has no game or both).
I read your column a lot and there's a pattern I've been noticing. A straight guy writes in and says heâs straight and likes pussy, but heâs recently discovered that heâs also attracted to trans women. And then they ask something like, âHow should I describe my sexual orientation now?â To which you reply with something like, âYou are straight. Trans women are women, they just happen to have dicks.â Great answer! I don't disagree, but if I were responding I'd write, âYou're not gay, because trans women aren't men. Trans women are women with dicks. Since you are attracted to women, you can keep on identifying as straight if that's what feels right. Or you can identify as queer.â Queerness, as I understand it, is an expansive term that refers to anyone whose sexuality or gender expression falls outside of conventional expectations. To me it seems appropriate for these straight men to embrace the term âqueer.â
Mulling Over Labels